Posted by -LOCKED - Community Input on Challenge/Paperclip Trades

Katze (#3)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2022-08-12 09:33:32
Hi, everyone!

As mentioned within August 12th's Community Update news, we are aware that part of the community dislikes challenge/paperclip trades appearing in the Trading Center. One particular topic has had a fair bit of discussion from both sides:
* ⚔️TwoSwordsClash⚔️ (#122111), "Outlaw "joke" trades of 1 SB"

Our stance has generally been that the Trading Center is a player-run "free market". Part of the reason for this is that you, the players, determine the value that items and other assets hold over time. Players are free to try to sell or trade their assets at whatever value they choose, and other players are free to decide whether or not they accept that value.

When it comes to moderating challenge/paperclip trades, the main question is: where do we draw the line? At what value does a trade become more than just a paperclip trade? If an arbitrary value is set, then trades will simply be created at a value just above that. If it becomes a matter of simply disallowing any trades entitled "What can I get for _____?", then we essentially remove open-ended offer-based trades.

We understand that a big concern is how they flood the Trading Center and push legitimate trades out of view, though we have never moderated the amount of trades any one player can post at one time, or how many of a certain type of trade can exist at the same time.

As you can see, moderating these trades isn't a cut-and-dried solution, much as we wish it were.

Potential Solutions
* We could add the ability to conveniently and instantly hide trades under the "Recent Trades" and "Search Results" listings for trades, without needing to click to view the actual trade, and without needing to block the trade's creator. An additional "Hidden Trades" section could be added to the Trading Center interface in case a trade is hidden by mistake.
* There could be an additional option to "Hide All Trades By This Player", as well. This could act as a "soft block" which only prevents you from seeing certain trades, and still allows you to interact with the trade creator.
* We could implement a new Stockpile subforum category for "Challenge Trades", where players would be encouraged to advertise their challenges. Players could then set up private trades if they end up receiving a buyer for their trade, rather than publicly listing their trades in the Trading Center beforehand. The downside of this option is then moderating what does and does not belong within that subforum, needing to cancel/remove any publicly-listed challenge trades, and determining what falls under a challenge trade to begin with.

We would ideally like to hear whether or not this is something you think might provide added value for you when using the Trading Center. Additionally, if you have thoughts on other possible (manageable) solutions or suggestions on how this type of system could be improved, we're open to hearing these as well. Keep in mind that any solutions tied to moderation would require hard-set definitions that not all players may see eye to eye on.

To further clarify: We want your input on how exactly we rule this type of trade - where is the line? Why isn't my 1 SB trade open for any offers allowed? It's a legitimate trade, I am offering something in exchange for an offer. Why would it be considered begging or a challenge/paperclip trade? What if it was 5 SB instead of 1? 10 instead of 5? Who determines whether I'm asking to trade up by offering 1 SB for a Large Leaf?

In order to moderate things like this efficiently, we need a concrete determined set of rules about what constitutes a challenge trade. That's what we need your help with.

If we implement the second Trading Center idea that some people are suggesting, how do we determine that a trade in the "regular" Trading Center isn't just a misplaced challenge trade? This is the conundrum we're having.

This topic will remain open for two weeks, and will be locked on Friday, August 26th, 2022. Once it is locked, our admin team will review it for potential ideas and solutions. We will post an update on the situation as soon as we are able to work one out, if one can be worked out at all—and if we decide not to pursue these trades, we will announce this as well.



This suggestion has 517 supports and 40 NO supports.



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Edited on 12/08/22 @ 10:03:48 by Katze (#3)

Enjolras (#189510)

Majestic
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Posted on
2022-08-15 11:13:34
Loving the whole subforum for challenges, because it makes it avoidable, while those who want to do it, can, without necessarily clogging the TC with it. And, for those of us who like all kinds of gameplay challenges, we could come up with some challenges, that others may enjoy too. So, I'd like a forum, myself, as someone who loves a challenge, but not the paperclip one, because it was everywhere for a while, got a bit cloggy, but for those who like it, it'd be better to have somewhere where you actively have to search for it to see it. Don't wanna see it? Avoid the Paperclip Forum. Best for everyone, in my opinion. Easy to find, but also easy to avoid. Countless times, I've gone to TC to find something, and seen those trades everywhere. There obviously is people who like this, and therefore, there is a place for it. But, that place is not the TC, and I don't think "soft blocks" are the way to go. I vote for the Forum category, myself



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Edited on 15/08/22 @ 11:18:54 by Enjolras (#189510)

Purplekat (#149803)

Cursed
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Posted on
2022-08-15 17:01:48
So my suggestion allows it to be useful for things other than this challenge. Since we have a search option for certain keywords that are in trades how about the ability to filter (or hide) trades with keywords as well? For example, then you could just filter out the word "1sb" or even "challenge" so none show up with this, since a lot of these challenge trades don't even include the value of 1sb, as they're kind of a chain of trades the user makes as they increase in value. You could then use this to filter out other things in trades you're looking for, like for example looking for bases but you don't want dwarves with that base or something. It'd get two birds with one stone IMO.



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Snowpiercer (#217633)


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Posted on
2022-08-15 19:04:07
i seriously hate this kind of trading, so i think a way to filter OUT keywords and/or a separate area for it
good luck devs!



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Hollow7 (#277204)

Bone Collector
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Posted on
2022-08-17 12:11:19
Personally, i think the idea for a possible new trading center would work well. A lot of people also really like the paperclip chellenges. Maybe like the monkey business, we have a little aardwolf pal who can accept 1 sb for a spin at a wheel, which gives a random cheap, crafting item, which you could post as a "what could i get for___" trade

Let the little buddy have 3 different wheels, 1sb, 5sb, and 10sb, all of which give different values.

or maybe make it so the only way to hold a paperclip challenege would be with... AN ACTUAL PAPERCLIP

for this idea:
-make an applicator for the paperclips once you collect 100 (Now people would want to help them)

-make an animal that you can give 5sb for a paperclip, which automatically sets up a paperclip trade

-people offer for the paperclip

-accept a good offer

-move to trading center with the second trade and up

(I figure most people really hate seeing the start of a paperclip trade)



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Donna Interstellar
G1 Tobiano (#94818)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2022-08-17 12:11:22
I think those sort of trades are veiled begging but I don't really care I just ignore them..




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radiumjackalope- g2
moss agate (#216974)


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Posted on
2022-08-17 12:15:10
a separate category in the tc like how raffles are or the softblock option would be fine with me. i don't particularly Care, they're just a mild inconvenience to sort through so a filter would be wonderful



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Gwathgor {G1 Glass
Primal} (#47009)

Cursed
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Posted on
2022-08-17 12:57:10
I don't care about those type of trades that much, but I do really like the suggestion I've seen above to add option to exclude keywords from the search, I think it would be pretty useful overall.



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Tiroloca (#118967)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2022-08-17 12:58:41
I really don’t see the issue in doing that kind of trade but if is becoming a issue for other then just give the option to block this kind of trade to the people who are getting annoyed with it for don’t see it and that it😉



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Michael (#16)

Famous
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Posted on
2022-08-17 12:59:49
I just wanted to reiterate that it's not possible to exclude keywords without also including a keyword.

Think of it like Google. You can't go to Google and tell it to show you all sites/pages that don't include a certain word of phrase. First you have to include a search term, and then from there you can narrow it down.



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Tiroloca (#118967)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2022-08-17 13:04:12
Help…if I click support I’m supporting what exactly? I’m all confused with everything I read here….and don’t know what in the end is the bottom for support or not support 🤔



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persephone [side] (#187131)


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Posted on
2022-08-17 13:06:52
I've blocked almost 200 people because of trades like these, just to make my trading center look normal.

Any sort of assistance would be helpful as I don't like blocking people at all!



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DANIEL- G2 Mottled (#128)

Pervert
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Posted on
2022-08-17 13:26:14
These $1 trades are the same as people begging in chat for free items. It shouldn’t be allowed. I’ve noticed the only people okay with it are newer players who haven’t put in the years work to build up their accounts.



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Tiroloca (#118967)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2022-08-17 13:54:04
That is not true what some players said about new players are the ones supporting this because I start playing in the 2017 and dose trade do not bother me….is ok you been against but don’t say to only new players are the ones ok with it because you been bias and that is not nice.



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Edited on 17/08/22 @ 14:18:10 by Tiroloca (#118967)

Tigger (#48902)

Blessed
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Posted on
2022-08-17 14:07:22
I think something similar to the soft block would be nice, but with some moderation. It would be cool to see something along the lines of:

Challenge trades, to have to have the word "Challenge" in it.
Likewise just "What can I get for?" Statements, could utilize a soft block button to ultimately hide trade containing those words or letters.

If they're doing the same challenges but not properly listed, there could be a flag button, to have it removed; likewise, as it was stated, having a button to be able to hide all trades from that person. If I processed it correctly.



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Corruptedhyena (#243378)


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Posted on
2022-08-17 15:18:55
What if there was a check box in the filter tool for trade center?

Like a checkbox that says "indecisive trade" which you click if you don't know what to buy or for challenge trades? Those who make trades like such are required tk click this checkbox. This will allow those who don't want to see them to not see them (kinda like the "exclude frozen lions" box?

Idk if that made sense



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