Posted by -LOCKED - Community Input on Challenge/Paperclip Trades

Katze (#3)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2022-08-12 09:33:32
Hi, everyone!

As mentioned within August 12th's Community Update news, we are aware that part of the community dislikes challenge/paperclip trades appearing in the Trading Center. One particular topic has had a fair bit of discussion from both sides:
* ⚔️TwoSwordsClash⚔️ (#122111), "Outlaw "joke" trades of 1 SB"

Our stance has generally been that the Trading Center is a player-run "free market". Part of the reason for this is that you, the players, determine the value that items and other assets hold over time. Players are free to try to sell or trade their assets at whatever value they choose, and other players are free to decide whether or not they accept that value.

When it comes to moderating challenge/paperclip trades, the main question is: where do we draw the line? At what value does a trade become more than just a paperclip trade? If an arbitrary value is set, then trades will simply be created at a value just above that. If it becomes a matter of simply disallowing any trades entitled "What can I get for _____?", then we essentially remove open-ended offer-based trades.

We understand that a big concern is how they flood the Trading Center and push legitimate trades out of view, though we have never moderated the amount of trades any one player can post at one time, or how many of a certain type of trade can exist at the same time.

As you can see, moderating these trades isn't a cut-and-dried solution, much as we wish it were.

Potential Solutions
* We could add the ability to conveniently and instantly hide trades under the "Recent Trades" and "Search Results" listings for trades, without needing to click to view the actual trade, and without needing to block the trade's creator. An additional "Hidden Trades" section could be added to the Trading Center interface in case a trade is hidden by mistake.
* There could be an additional option to "Hide All Trades By This Player", as well. This could act as a "soft block" which only prevents you from seeing certain trades, and still allows you to interact with the trade creator.
* We could implement a new Stockpile subforum category for "Challenge Trades", where players would be encouraged to advertise their challenges. Players could then set up private trades if they end up receiving a buyer for their trade, rather than publicly listing their trades in the Trading Center beforehand. The downside of this option is then moderating what does and does not belong within that subforum, needing to cancel/remove any publicly-listed challenge trades, and determining what falls under a challenge trade to begin with.

We would ideally like to hear whether or not this is something you think might provide added value for you when using the Trading Center. Additionally, if you have thoughts on other possible (manageable) solutions or suggestions on how this type of system could be improved, we're open to hearing these as well. Keep in mind that any solutions tied to moderation would require hard-set definitions that not all players may see eye to eye on.

To further clarify: We want your input on how exactly we rule this type of trade - where is the line? Why isn't my 1 SB trade open for any offers allowed? It's a legitimate trade, I am offering something in exchange for an offer. Why would it be considered begging or a challenge/paperclip trade? What if it was 5 SB instead of 1? 10 instead of 5? Who determines whether I'm asking to trade up by offering 1 SB for a Large Leaf?

In order to moderate things like this efficiently, we need a concrete determined set of rules about what constitutes a challenge trade. That's what we need your help with.

If we implement the second Trading Center idea that some people are suggesting, how do we determine that a trade in the "regular" Trading Center isn't just a misplaced challenge trade? This is the conundrum we're having.

This topic will remain open for two weeks, and will be locked on Friday, August 26th, 2022. Once it is locked, our admin team will review it for potential ideas and solutions. We will post an update on the situation as soon as we are able to work one out, if one can be worked out at all—and if we decide not to pursue these trades, we will announce this as well.



This suggestion has 517 supports and 40 NO supports.



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Edited on 12/08/22 @ 10:03:48 by Katze (#3)

poekiajam *G1 FULL
Dawn 5xROS* (#103167)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2022-08-12 09:42:20
i think makinging a minimum of 100SB option in what the made trade contains. and maby an official rule that the * what can i get for 1sb* and the *1 sb to 100* trades are no longer allowed on the trade center



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Ars (Clean G9 Double
Soul) (#274924)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2022-08-12 09:42:32
I think if it's possible having a separate channel for paperclip / 1sb trades, as in how branches and raffles are separate, would be the best and easiest solution?



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🔥 King Jupiter
🐉 | G2 Ra (#282095)

Special Snowflake
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Posted on
2022-08-12 09:43:53
I really like the idea of the hidden trades option, it still allows people to create whatever trades they wish but people then also have personal control over what trades they see. This also allows people to make their own decisions on what trades they want to hide rather than mods trying to figure out where the line would be.



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Fire 🔥 (side)
🇵🇸 (#131929)

Astral
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Posted on
2022-08-12 09:44:27
I think the subforum is a good idea so that paperclip trades are not in and clogging up the trading center in the first place.



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poekiajam *G1 FULL
Dawn 5xROS* (#103167)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2022-08-12 09:45:16
the easiest solution is just ban these kinds of trades completly tbh.
most people are getting annoyed by how maby there are, and peole who have them overall really spam the trade center, and not many people offer on them anyway because they are an *legal* way of begging to get better stuff

i mean overal lioden is an all user friendly game, and its not that hard to be able to save up yourself



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Edited on 12/08/22 @ 09:47:18 by poekiajam * double Dawn * (#103167)

aqualectrix (#294141)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2022-08-12 09:45:34
I love the hidden trades idea, because I think it both solves the problem and has additional utility for hiding any other trades you're not interested in.



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Edited on 12/08/22 @ 09:47:11 by aqualectrix (#294141)

Khajiit {G1 Leonid
Magpie} (#68800)

Cursed
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Posted on
2022-08-12 09:46:07
It's good that it's being put under review.

My personal opinion is that it should be completely banned as veiled begging, alas we all know it most likely won't happen.

So for it to have the challenge trades subforum will be the next best solution, as it will both allow people to go and have their challenge in peace without making other players annoyed by the amount of trades and will also allow those who want to help in said challenge to easily find the trades/players to trade with. This solution will also allow them to keep track of their challenge progress within the thread, which many do in the what is wanted part of trades, and let's face it, that is limited.

I do understand that it does mean a lot more workload for mods, but on the other side - it will allow users to report such trades so moderators won't have to search the trading center themselves, or at least won't have to do it so often. The forums are also a bit easier to keep moderated as they are in one compacted space, where with trades you have to look up keywords, not all of the paperclip are put under said keywords, so many could slip. This way you have things in one place, for everyone to be able to easily find them.

So, in short - the subforum sounds like the most reasonable solution, and actually also the one that could be added the quickest.



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CORVID ✧ g1 3ros
ice daedal (#270895)

True King
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Posted on
2022-08-12 09:46:33
i like the subforum idea ! it would be a pain to have to block people’s trades & we’d risk not seeing any other of their trades we may actually WANT to see



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snowmew [G1 14BO
Abyssinian] (#63212)


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Posted on
2022-08-12 09:46:48
I'm not too keen on the subforum idea even though it seems to be the option players are liking most. This is because I mainly use the recent activity/topics panels for 90% of my forum browsing. I don't like seeing the paperclip challenges at all. And I fear that with that addition, those panels will purely be clogged by topics about those trades, and not the variety of different topics like it usually is. It then still advertises these trades en masse and annoyingly to the public, thus making it a problem on the forums now and not the trade center.



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Edited on 12/08/22 @ 09:49:43 by snowmew [G1 Subtle 3x Ros] (#63212)

Era (#277605)

Divine
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Posted on
2022-08-12 09:47:11
Maybe when creating trades you have to select a type? Like you select "Looking for" trade or a "Regular" or a "Challenge/paperclip" trade and users can filter whcih they want to see or not?

This would allow users to block out certain trades they dont want to see



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Katze (#3)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2022-08-12 09:47:31
The problem with banning these trades is figuring out where to draw the line so that the trades stop being a problem. If we disallow "What can I get for 1 SB" trades, should we also stop allowing similar "What can I get for 5 SB/10 SB/1 GB/50 GB/etc." trades? If we ban the term "challenge" in trades completely, then there's the possibility that players will just create the same exact trades, but not use the term "challenge", so nothing has really changed and the trades will still clutter the Trading Center.



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SJ G1 Blazing/vernal
NRLC (#245604)

Brave
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Posted on
2022-08-12 09:48:00
I don't really understand what this is about. Seriously don't get it. When I go into trade I am always searching for a specific item/deal even when I'm browsing, so these offers rarely bother me (I have seen them and skipped over them). If someone puts a phrase or writing I don't understand or doesn't concern me i skip over it (their loss??). Selling is selling, asking is asking. The tag line is everything.

I genuinely don't get what this is all about and would be happy someone explain the advantages/disadvantages to this situation. I genuinely don't get it. Could someone give me a scenario and how it could be annoying? I thought trade was like the free adds. Skim until something catches your eye. Is there more to it?? Serious query...



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SaxonBarb (#207524)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2022-08-12 09:48:09
I support completely banning these trades, they are just begging in another format and do not belong anywhere on the site.



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Edited on 12/08/22 @ 09:50:16 by SaxonBarb (#207524)

Cyanide 🌒 {Cream
Lover} (#27473)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2022-08-12 09:48:16
The trades are incredibly annoying and take up TC space, and while yes you can search for what you need, casual browsing just isn't FUN in TC anymore. I think it's just poorly disguised begging and needs to go, or can be held in the forum and not TC. Begging isn't allowed so why are these trades?



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Era (#277605)

Divine
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Posted on
2022-08-12 09:49:23
Paperclip things in real life dont always start with actual money. We could copy that and say you can only do paperclip trades with actual paperclips so items (Like a decor or lion or something) or if you do GB the minimum has to be 1 GB 1k SB or something



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Edited on 12/08/22 @ 09:50:24 by TheDenQueen|G4 Symmetrical (#277605)



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