Posted by The Giving Tree hints at a problem

Dinoman (#2747)

Usual
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Posted on
2023-05-31 03:07:47
I came back to Lioden after one of my several month hiatuses as is my normal routine and what I've seen has left me confused and distraught.

Cubs. So many cubs. TOO many cubs. Literal legions of cubs huddled under this godforsaken tree, waiting to be taken away. But for every cub taken, dozens more take its place.

I've been playing Lioden almost since it came out and in all my time playing this game, I do not remember a single moment in this game's history where the giving tree could hold onto cubs for more than an hour. This backlog is unprecedented, and what's more, what people are leaving there, and the low prices people are now charging for high tier marked and mutated lions, are showing something even more insidious.

I've discussed with people in the chat how insane the giving tree currently is. I just received a female adolescent with a squeaky clean heritage and TWO Tier 6 markings. Another player pointed out that they had gotten an adolescent female with a patched mutation and entirely clean heritage.

These are lions that should be worth hundreds, if not thousands of silver beetles. And people are tossing them into the tree like they're some regular two tier one marking cubs from an NCL. Meanwhile those trying to sell similar lions in the Trading Center, those priced for what these mutations or markings should be worth aren't selling, and people are undercutting by as low as a fourth of those prices.

I don't wish to fearmonger but I think the game may finally be at its breaking point. I think we finally, simply, just have too many lions. If we're at the point that people are treeing mutations and some of the most expensive markings in the game, and so few cubs are being taken that we now have a backlog of LITERALLY THOUSANDS, we've surpassed critical mass on lions, meaning their value has tanked to nothing, which means the entire website's economy could follow soon after since the entire economy is based on the breeding, trading, and studding of lions.



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peepy (#48100)

Savage
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Posted on
2023-06-06 16:34:10
That doesn't change the fact that, by virtue of there being more lions with valuable traits that produce more offspring, there are just simply more of those valuable lions in the ether. It is like fishspeaker said. I used to play a lot more few years ago, and there weren't *nearly* as many hybrids, for example. And even then, all we had was Leopons. The game is just running its natural course of being over 10 years old, having a shit ton of players and lions, and a fuck ton of cubs.



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Edited on 06/06/23 @ 16:35:51 by gaypeepy (#48100)

mousecouch🕷️ (#21960)

Sinister
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Posted on
2023-06-06 16:35:00
As a karma farmer, I wish more people would sell their cubs for even dirt cheap (rather than toss them at the tree with no incentive) like me and other farmers buy them for. I pay 15SB each and try to go on every couple hours and buyout every trade of cubs that’s priced closely to that. We see with a lot of newer players that they get sentimentally attached to these lions and cubs, and they would rather them be adopted or sold than well.. murdered by my queen lol. I would LOVE to take every cub from the tree and wipe them from the server for some karma, but that would take me about 3 years straight at this rate.



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Edited on 06/06/23 @ 16:36:19 by 𝔱𝔢𝔞𝔯𝔰 (#21960)

kreech (#430477)

Unholy
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Posted on
2023-06-07 10:43:55
I think the existence of karma farmers is a reason why newer players avoid selling cubs cheap unless they're really desperate



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Romana (#14743)

Blessed
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Posted on
2023-06-07 11:18:05
I get more lions means more tier 2 and special base lions in general… but it’s also really, REALLY hard to pass some traits. Like, my old Frostbitten king only had 2 cubs with his base out of the 100 I bred for myself, and neither of his girls ever passed it on after all their natural heats. Don’t even get me started on my rosettes never passing on. So even a high mark with a special base can theoretically only spit out potatoes and maybe one or two cubs worth keeping over her whole breeding life.

I think part of the frustration is people clogging up the market and the tree with potatoes over the last few months. And… it’s not like those cubs ever go anywhere except to the gorilla or chased or as karma fodder anyway. There’s only so many lions you can care for a day and since adults need a den slot… those cubs people hoarded for 24 days only wind up chased anyway or being wiped from the tree. I think part of the solution is speeding that cycle back up again through better a better gorilla or star gate. You can only have so many potatoes sitting in on the market at 1000 SB until the trade finally expires or that cub gets chased.

So that’s why I think these new players hoarding onto crappy cubs need more solid incentives to let them go, like a progress meter toward every cub or lion they dump into a “reserve where that lion can live happily ever after (and you get a tiny reward for clearing up our server.)” The market will probably never go back to the rates they used to, but giving players more rewards for dumping mediocre lions at least means more competitive rates for those actually worth something.



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Equagga|G5 Harbinger
DHR Felis (#105402)

Blessed
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Posted on
2024-01-01 12:08:29
Even the fodder cub market has tanked. I came back from a loooong hiatus recently and had to halve what I price my fodder at to move a reasonable amount of it. I aim to sell gorilla fodder, so I used to sell at 100 SB, the maximum I'll usually pay to fulfill a quest personally. And before my hiatus, about 50% of my listings at that price would go. Now even at 50 SB I only sell about 25% or less, usually less, because it's on the basis of eyes and skin that most cubs sell as gorilla fodder, so each sale is the result of there somehow not being any 10-15 SB cubs with the same trait. Nobody breeds for the manes or T0-1 markings it asks for, and there are SO MANY cubs listed for that little.

If more people would raise the price of their fodder (assuming it even is all intended as fodder-- some are advertised in their listings like that's not what the seller wants them to be despite the price) that would help raise the floor of the market and maybe save some nicer lions from being treed, at least, but it won't stop people who don't to delete their cubs themselves from flooding the tree with potatoes. I'm spiteful. My king has the heartless personality, if you dump a potato at the tree and I get it, it's murdered, not resold or retreed.

(I do retree cubs that are pretty, but nothing I'm interested in, and I only tree nice enough looking adols... People often say that the adols are a better pool to pull from, but I always go with a cub bc then I have more days to think about it + possibly train it away from its awful tree stats.)

I get that the point of the tree is it's free cubs, so you do risk getting crap from it-- it's free-- but the balance should be mid-tier lions, not mostly potatoes and the odd rosette (...yeah I've treed rosettes, they were inbred so they wouldn't've been quick sells. See? Issues).



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moth | G1 ice base (#456281)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2024-01-06 18:12:38
cubs in the tree already die after 3 rollovers in the tree, so there's that. but yeah there needs to be some incentive for getting rid of useless potato cubs, turning them in at the enclave for a very small reward sounds good to me. i just nature reserve my useless cubs and idk why anyone else wouldn't chase/reserve/kill them too



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Terrinthia [G1] (#97101)

Famous
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Posted on
2024-01-06 18:36:30
As a disclaimer, I also dislike the masses upon masses of potato cubs in the tree. But here's my take on one possible reason - for me, I have too many cubs to even bother looking at them lol. I'm breeding for specific things, and if cubs don't have enough of those traits to show up when I do a search on my pride, they don't exist for me. However, I don't abandon my cubs to the tree; when I do abandon one, it's a mutie or something else I don't really need but can't justify chasing. I look at my Pride Overview when they become adults to see if any were random AMPs, but if not, they get chased without me ever looking at them.

I'm probably one of only a few 'extreme' examples, but I'd bet a lot of people look at their cubs, name the ones they'll keep, and then abandon the rest in bulk at 5 months old. It's easy as heck.



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Kalech (#457567)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2024-01-09 06:17:12
As a friend pointed out, the amount of male cubs in the tree isn't surprising. They are practically useless and slots for them are seriously expensive. But seeing like 3k+ female cubs too... Oof.

Honestly I wonder if maybe the tree should just wipe cubs at the end of every day instead. Or yeah, allow us to "vendor" them for a small price. I started this game for the first time in early december so I'm still very new, but it didn't take long for me to go "So... What do I do with all these cubs".

Also, I wonder if there are people who Abandon rather than Chased off because if you Abandon (and your cub gets adopted) then they still show up on your heritage, or in the king's number of cubs bred. I was kinda annoyed that the number of cubs my king has had isnt accurate because I chased some. Maybe if that stuff was made permanent even if the cub is chased, that would also induce more people to chase rather than abandon.

Told a friend about this and while typing she literally pulled a really nice Primal Fangs adolescent female from the tree.



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+ | Basil | + (#460720)

Total Chad
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Posted on
2024-02-03 23:13:55
Agreed, there's already 3k+ female cubs at the Tree, and those are just the female cubs, not counting the 2900+ male cubs and the adols. This economy is seriously crashing, I just got a female primal & a cub with three interstellar markings from the tree. I also agree that yeah, maybe the mods/devs should release new bases less often or wipe all the cubs & adols at the tree at the end of the day before RO or add a cap onto a tree (meaning only a certain number of cubs can be "tree'ed" each day and any others that you didn't manage to tree has to be chased/kept/sold/killed/nature reserved.
And like, we appreciate all these new bases and all, but at this point its kinda harming the game instead of helping it.



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Kalech (#457567)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2024-02-04 03:55:58
I know some people were bothered that they were pulling rare/unusual cubs from the tree and thinking on it further, I think I actually prefer having unusual cubs in the tree? At first I was like "I think these should be sold" but I think I've changed my mind on it.

Me and a friend have been pulling cubs everyday and showing each other, doing make-overs on them for fun. And I realized it was definitely more fun as a new player to pull a cub that felt like a bit of a "Prize" (even if it was nothing outrageously rare).

And I guess TECHNICALLY it doesn't do any harm if cubs are sitting uselessly in the tree, but it definitely does point towards a larger issue like everyone has said.
Basically, too much supply and too little demand.
I think they really need to offer us something to DO with cubs we don't want to keep. Gorilla Enclave helps some, but we definitely need a Demand that equals the supply.



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Ricky [Git gud lol] (#177615)

Notable Lion
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Posted on
2024-02-04 03:59:38
its been like this since the newbies influx roughly january 2023, we have had times where the tree is dead [murder stone month], but most of the time its filled with more than 5k cubs in each category. even dropping a hybrid cub in there doesnt empty the tree anymore.



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Kalech (#457567)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2024-02-04 04:19:42
I decided to post a suggestion.
Tbh I don't think it will be popular but it doesn't hurt to try. I think really we just need more uses for cubs, because I think that's the most realistic solution. Rather than like... Limit every lioness to 1 cub each or something drastic like that.

I do still think the giving tree should reset every day though tbh. Plus the amount of male cubs that are totally useless is kinda insane. Everyone grabs females because males are useless, and Gorilla Enclave isn't enough on its own to even out supply/demand.



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kenz (#181066)


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Posted on
2024-02-24 09:59:54
Breeding is almost pointless in Lioden now, especially as a BO breeder. The amount of times I pull low-gen cubs with high bo traits from the tree is insane. Each cub could easily go for a few GB, but there is ZERO market for them because it's easy to get them essentially for free atp. I agree strongly with a daily wipe, or at least a bi-weekly wipe of the tree, along with a maximum cap. for the number of cubs abandoned.



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8️⃣Stanley-4278
(#186118)

Astral
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Posted on
2024-02-27 18:45:34
I did not know I'd be learning about lioden cub economy today, but man.

Imo for me I like getting the giving tree cubs regardless if it doesn't match what I need for the Gorilla Enclave. I just then give them away as adoptions until they die off. But most of the time the lionesses are the ones that get adopted. I just don't have the effort to care for so many cubs that are for adoption.

I'm not as active as most veteran players here, but I don't really want to spend 100 sb on a fodder for the Gorilla Enclave. I'm lucky enough to buy a clean mutie that fits what I wanted so I can get people to stud to him. However I wouldn't be able to pay and keep a good amount of my SB if they were that price. Because most of the time the Gorilla Enclave asks for a cub that I don't have.

Personally, I agree with the idea Kalech made however if Lioden does go the shop route it could lead to another issue. I'd say it would be better to be rewarded with common items like nests or food.



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MousseMori (#81680)

Toxic
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Posted on
2024-02-27 22:58:19
I thought I was going mad! There are SO many! I pull some very nice lions from there, which I enjoy! But it is so bizarre as I remember when there would be so few and they'd so rarely have nice markings and bases. Got a clean rosette there the other day and today a very pretty lion with the Goridhe base. A year or two ago itd be a ton of dun and cremello cubs w 2 markings



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