Posted by Ban Forum Gambling Games (+270)

coolio πŸ„β”ƒmaziwa (#149374)


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Posted on
2024-01-28 12:23:40

Ban Forum Gambling Games
because we're better than that

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Hello everyone! Welcome to yet another one of my suggestions, except this one is unfortunately not nearly as fun as the others. There has been a recent trend of an increase in a number of gambling games held on the forums. They take multiple forms, but are ultimately all a variation of the same idea. I am making this suggestion to call for a full-on ban of these types of games. I believe there is precedent to do so and I believe they are distinct enough to be able to enforce this ban. I am not going to link to specific games as to avoid making this thread appear as if I am targeting specific people. I am, however, hopefully going to clearly define parameters to be able to argue my point. I welcome all discussion, but please keep it respectful. Additionally if you are thinking, "coolio do you just hate fun?" The answer is yes so no need to bother with that question

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so what is a gambling game, and are they really gambling?

I am defining a gambling game as a forum thread in which participants use either GB or items to buy attempts at winning a prize. This is unlike a raffle in which participants buy tickets for a chance at a known prize, as the prize they will receive is unknown. They are characterized by the differential rates and qualities of prizes (i.e. the majority of prizes are lower quality, with a rare, higher quality prize being the "big ticket" item).

Now the question: are these threads really gambling? And the answer is dear heavens yes. What do you think of when you think of a casino? Flashing lights, bright colors, loud music. These threads are the lioden equivalent of that. They make use of flashy and enticing language like "diamond spins". They offer deals to get your foot in the door. You are most likely to get a lower-level prize, which encourages participants to try again. These games rely on the mentality of "just one more spin" or "i have to get it next time". The majority of the time, participants will receive a prize that is lower-value than what they paid with.

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why this is bad: legal precedent

Now now now. I know what you're thinking: the law?? Yeah, I'm not going to imply that the lioden admins are going to get thrown in the slammer for this. I am sure that the people whose career this is know more about the law than me. I am going to argue, however, that allowing these games goes against the intent of the law. See, Lioden follows UK law. And in the UK, according to the Gambling Act of 2005, minors cannot gamble. There are exceptions of course: lotteries (thats why we can do raffles, but I've already said why these games aren't those), private events (this is a public site, not your uncle's back porch), events at a family entertainment centre or traveling fair (again, this is lioden), or non-commercial betting. Now there's where you're probably thinking ah - loophole! And maybe, yeah, I dont know the law. But these games are primarily played with GB. It's not real money, but it is a premium currency, as in it only enters the game (except in very rare instances) through real-life purchases. I believe this is why it is ok for slots to exist, as it uses SB, a non-premium currency.

*edit: I am using "ok" as a legality term, not as a morality term. I want these forums games banned regardless of what currency they use. I don't want them to stay up if they only use SB

*another edit: For a much better explanation of these laws please read this comment. It is both incredibly more accurate and in depth than my brief summary here


Here's my point real succinct like. These games allow minors to gamble with premium currency that may or may not have been purchased with real-life money. And I'm going to take it a bit further. I believe these games target minors. Not intentionally, of course. But the nature of these games directly appeals to someone with less impulse control. It's why loot boxes came under such scrutiny. This type of gambling is custom made for a younger audience

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why this is bad: code of conduct precedent

But of course, who cares about the law. We got the liolaw. Let me reference Code of Conduct point 1.26: Do not scam players. Now, I can't argue that just because anyone decent at math can see that these game only benefit the person hosting them that there's scamming occurring. What I can argue is that there is absolutely no way to verify that these games are running in a legitimate fashion. See, the implication is that the host spins a wheel, and gives the prize spun. But how do we know that they didn't re-spin? How do we even know what the wheel really looks like? If the wheel lands on a hybrid cub, there is absolutely nothing stopping the host from saying that it landed on 10 GB instead. Could there be no horseplay occurring? Sure. But there is no way to provide there either is and isn't. Offering these games at a specific rate and then manipulating the rate behind the scenes should most certainly be considered scamming. And because there's no way to provide this isn't happening, I argue that it is better to eliminate the possibility of scamming all together.

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This is really long. Thank you for reading




This suggestion has 289 supports and 15 NO supports.



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Edited on 04/04/24 @ 18:03:27 by coolio πŸ„β”ƒmaziwa (#149374)

Ricky [Git gud lol] (#177615)

Notable Lion
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Posted on
2024-01-29 23:12:52
I do agree, but even mentioning that you're not allowed to use side accounts to do that studs, even as a joke, would make it more clear to some people if that makes sense. I do still support for a system to be tried and put in place before outright banning the games though

Also forgot to change my don't support to a support so I've only just done that



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πŸ©·πŸ€πŸ’œπŸ–€πŸ’™
|Nebula|❀️🩷πŸ
€πŸ’›πŸ§‘ (#434371)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2024-01-30 13:42:55
support tbh
i know why you brought this up lmao and i am so happy i didn't end up falling for it

i do have a question, would you consider my forum where you pay sb/gb to receive random applicators (may marking apps like brawl/squabble are excluded) gambling? you are guaranteed to get the amount of apps you paid for, just WHAT you get is random
i haven't maintained it in a while but yeah



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coolio πŸ„β”ƒmaziwa (#149374)


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Posted on
2024-01-30 16:27:56
In my opinion, it would depend on how its run. If you're simply picking randomly between similar-value applicators, it's not something I'd personally be interested in but it also wouldn't be something I'd be concerned about. If you were advertising it as a chance for rare applicators like interstellar or such, that may start to cross over into the gambling territory. Think loot boxes that have a 0.1% chance at a "legendary item"

I went ahead and looked at your thread and apart from some of the language (if you wanted to avoid being associated with more scam-y threads i'd use more neutral language like small box, medium box, large box, jumbo box, etc.) I have no issue with it. The cost/prize ratio seems fair enough and you disclose the exact probabilities. Probably the fairest example of these types of games I've seen



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πŸ©·πŸ€πŸ’œπŸ–€πŸ’™
|Nebula|❀️🩷πŸ
€πŸ’›πŸ§‘ (#434371)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2024-01-30 19:13:13
yeah, i'll probably change the terms used lmao



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πŸ’« Divine πŸ’« |
G2 Pie NRLC (#249436)

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Posted on
2024-01-31 00:05:33



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Edited on 10/02/24 @ 04:25:08 by Fridge 🌈 (#249436)

⚜️ Zuri ⚜️ (#247464)


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Posted on
2024-01-31 00:12:52
I support. 90% of these games are scams even if they claim to not be .



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+ | Basil [G2 Jelly]
| + (#460720)


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Posted on
2024-01-31 00:20:20
Agreed, let’s bump this thread y’all! :3



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shade
🏳️‍🌈 (#133004)

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Posted on
2024-01-31 02:50:42
I completely agree with this suggestion. I’ve never taken part in any of these gambling wheels/spins/whatever because it’s obvious to me that they are scams. If there’s no official system in place or any checks then I can’t trust someone to give out a fair prize when everything is up to them and you don’t know what could be going on behind the scenes (i.e manipulating the results). In my opinion, the risk of losing whatever items/lions you enter into these games is never worth the potential prizes you might win.

I was happy to be a silent supporter of this suggestion but someone above in the comments seems to be confusing banning gambling type forum games with banning ALL forum games which is why I felt the need to comment.

I don’t see any harm in other forum games where people gift those below them, rate each others lions/kings, make up warrior cat names etc. They’ve been around for years, I enjoy them, it’s harmless fun and I’d be disappointed if those were banned along with the gambling types.

I know that’s not the intention of this suggestion but I wanted to say it here anyways as it’s been brought up



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+ | Basil [G2 Jelly]
| + (#460720)


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Posted on
2024-01-31 02:53:37
Mhm! I feel like only the gambling should be banned, other forum games (eg Gifting The Person Below You, warrior cats name game etc etc basically the ones that don’t involve gambling) should still stay up :>
Edit: Especially the gifting threads, if it is moderated, then it’s a really good thing where you could help others (especially newbies, it’s pretty hard when you start) to get desired items and then receive things yourself! :> (aka harmless fun as said above)



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Edited on 31/01/24 @ 02:56:15 by ♀{Aconite}♀ (#460720)

πŸ’« Divine πŸ’« |
G2 Pie NRLC (#249436)

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Posted on
2024-01-31 02:55:00
Yes, the fun games are fun but the gambling ones? They should definitely go, usually a scam! I gave 4 dwarves when I was a starter to one of them and got food, decor and amusement in return. It was very unfair!



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Ricky [Git gud lol] (#177615)

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Posted on
2024-01-31 07:13:49
I think when I originally read this I either misread or confused myself with it all as I was half asleep so that that dumb on my end, but I do absolutely support this now. Also bump.



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Arnox Wolfe (#382568)

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Posted on
2024-01-31 07:25:13
Literally no reason to not support? I bet the people who aren't supporting is because they're the ones who's doing the gambles, ngl/.



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Tanuki🌿 (#124772)


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Posted on
2024-01-31 14:12:52
support!! some people be rigging them for their friends or even themselves removing them makes things more fair for everybody



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Fraekinn [Semi
Hiatus] (#57572)


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Posted on
2024-01-31 14:26:54
"Some people be rigging them" - like using their side account to fake wins?



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Arnox Wolfe (#382568)

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Posted on
2024-02-01 06:10:53
@fraekinn - i know someone who did



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