Posted by Ban Forum Gambling Games (+270)

coolio πŸ„β”ƒmaziwa (#149374)


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Posted on
2024-01-28 12:23:40

Ban Forum Gambling Games
because we're better than that

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Hello everyone! Welcome to yet another one of my suggestions, except this one is unfortunately not nearly as fun as the others. There has been a recent trend of an increase in a number of gambling games held on the forums. They take multiple forms, but are ultimately all a variation of the same idea. I am making this suggestion to call for a full-on ban of these types of games. I believe there is precedent to do so and I believe they are distinct enough to be able to enforce this ban. I am not going to link to specific games as to avoid making this thread appear as if I am targeting specific people. I am, however, hopefully going to clearly define parameters to be able to argue my point. I welcome all discussion, but please keep it respectful. Additionally if you are thinking, "coolio do you just hate fun?" The answer is yes so no need to bother with that question

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so what is a gambling game, and are they really gambling?

I am defining a gambling game as a forum thread in which participants use either GB or items to buy attempts at winning a prize. This is unlike a raffle in which participants buy tickets for a chance at a known prize, as the prize they will receive is unknown. They are characterized by the differential rates and qualities of prizes (i.e. the majority of prizes are lower quality, with a rare, higher quality prize being the "big ticket" item).

Now the question: are these threads really gambling? And the answer is dear heavens yes. What do you think of when you think of a casino? Flashing lights, bright colors, loud music. These threads are the lioden equivalent of that. They make use of flashy and enticing language like "diamond spins". They offer deals to get your foot in the door. You are most likely to get a lower-level prize, which encourages participants to try again. These games rely on the mentality of "just one more spin" or "i have to get it next time". The majority of the time, participants will receive a prize that is lower-value than what they paid with.

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why this is bad: legal precedent

Now now now. I know what you're thinking: the law?? Yeah, I'm not going to imply that the lioden admins are going to get thrown in the slammer for this. I am sure that the people whose career this is know more about the law than me. I am going to argue, however, that allowing these games goes against the intent of the law. See, Lioden follows UK law. And in the UK, according to the Gambling Act of 2005, minors cannot gamble. There are exceptions of course: lotteries (thats why we can do raffles, but I've already said why these games aren't those), private events (this is a public site, not your uncle's back porch), events at a family entertainment centre or traveling fair (again, this is lioden), or non-commercial betting. Now there's where you're probably thinking ah - loophole! And maybe, yeah, I dont know the law. But these games are primarily played with GB. It's not real money, but it is a premium currency, as in it only enters the game (except in very rare instances) through real-life purchases. I believe this is why it is ok for slots to exist, as it uses SB, a non-premium currency.

*edit: I am using "ok" as a legality term, not as a morality term. I want these forums games banned regardless of what currency they use. I don't want them to stay up if they only use SB

*another edit: For a much better explanation of these laws please read this comment. It is both incredibly more accurate and in depth than my brief summary here


Here's my point real succinct like. These games allow minors to gamble with premium currency that may or may not have been purchased with real-life money. And I'm going to take it a bit further. I believe these games target minors. Not intentionally, of course. But the nature of these games directly appeals to someone with less impulse control. It's why loot boxes came under such scrutiny. This type of gambling is custom made for a younger audience

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why this is bad: code of conduct precedent

But of course, who cares about the law. We got the liolaw. Let me reference Code of Conduct point 1.26: Do not scam players. Now, I can't argue that just because anyone decent at math can see that these game only benefit the person hosting them that there's scamming occurring. What I can argue is that there is absolutely no way to verify that these games are running in a legitimate fashion. See, the implication is that the host spins a wheel, and gives the prize spun. But how do we know that they didn't re-spin? How do we even know what the wheel really looks like? If the wheel lands on a hybrid cub, there is absolutely nothing stopping the host from saying that it landed on 10 GB instead. Could there be no horseplay occurring? Sure. But there is no way to provide there either is and isn't. Offering these games at a specific rate and then manipulating the rate behind the scenes should most certainly be considered scamming. And because there's no way to provide this isn't happening, I argue that it is better to eliminate the possibility of scamming all together.

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This is really long. Thank you for reading




This suggestion has 289 supports and 15 NO supports.



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Edited on 04/04/24 @ 18:03:27 by coolio πŸ„β”ƒmaziwa (#149374)

Fraekinn [Semi
Hiatus] (#57572)


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Posted on
2024-02-01 06:11:44
So do I, thats why I said it. I can't believe the amount of dishonesty the mods allow to run rampant by NOT addressing these blatant scams.



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Tanuki🌿 (#124772)


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Posted on
2024-02-01 08:35:06
definitely what and who we're all thinking about. these forum games are fun when the owner is honest, but some have ruined it for the all.
oh yeah kiiiinda off topic but my goal this february is to transfer 200 buffalo scrotums from my main to my side account via HS grind >:3



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Vixxie | 12bo
Stratosphere (#355386)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2024-02-01 14:56:51
so tired of those obvious scam "lucky wheels" be fr these people just giving out bad stuff to earn profit lol



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[All mut
pride]Barnashunter12 (#226934)

Total Chad
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Posted on
2024-02-01 16:51:39
Support 100% but imo I don’t think the government exactly cares about the legal stuff. As others have mentioned theres other game things that offer a very similar version of that



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🍡 skye wolfe (#320259)


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Posted on
2024-02-09 05:34:46
AYO!
So, I just tried one of the "lucky lottery shit" thing. Guess what?? Said there's 70% of an app, got a clawless vandal mutie for 500 SB, which is probably the most potato looking lion I've ever seen and owned. Definetly a scam. Looked through the pages; the first 2 were honest, the rest were just shitty lions they probably bought off the TC for 100 SB ngl. Huge support from me, because these things are just sugar-coated scams.



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coolio πŸ„β”ƒmaziwa (#149374)


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Posted on
2024-02-13 10:23:14
this has been steadily racking up supports while I wasn’t looking - yay for 200!



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Kalech (#457567)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2024-02-14 05:08:18
Was unsure if I wanted to support or not at first. My initial thought was that I don't think all gambling aspects of the site needs to be removed (like the slot machine or whatnot, all the games are technically gambling because not all rewards in each group of rewards are of equal value imo). But after reading (I havent really been aware of these things, beyond christmas gifting posts), I think definitely something needs to be done about player-run gambling.

If not a ban then at the very least some proper regulation. Right now it kinda feels like the wild west over there. I have never held a Raffle personally, but from looking at it its my understanding that a Raffle can be used to hold these kind of "games"? It should be made a requirement that the actual Raffle feature has to be used, so that who wins is decided objectively and the reward pool is visible.

I'm supporting for sure, but I think that the gambling aspect of the site itself (and clarifications on breeding item %) should be its own post.



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οΌ°ο½…ο½Žο½•ο½“.
πŸ‡ΉπŸ‡·
πŸ§‘πŸ’›πŸ€πŸ’œπŸ’™ (#305723)

Divine
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Posted on
2024-04-09 20:04:18
yup! don't even need to read the full post, i know i'm supporting this.
i constantly used to play these games and get absolutely nothing that was ever worth my while, or my gb.

imo--these NEED to be moderated better, atleast, if they do not get completely removed.



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TinyLionTamer (#428439)


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Posted on
2024-04-14 19:28:58
I can definitely get behind this idea. I tried out one of those gambling threads. Even as a grown adult, I found it pretty addictive. But the difference between me playing one of those games and a minor playing it is that I was able to stop once the price got too steep to continue. A minor would be more likely to burn all of their currency or to spend real money to try and win more prizes.

I also think the slot machine should be reexamined. It’s also a form of gambling, even though it’s less severe.



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πŸ—‘οΈ LunarKnight
[Project King] (#151072)


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Posted on
2024-04-15 09:07:59
I'm honestly on the fence about all this. Mainly because I've never thought of it as gambling. Especially items like CRB and GMO Cow. By following this idea the site would have to change a lot of things. I think the slot machine and stuff was made for being a SB sink. A lot of players have been saying we need more SB sinks as it is. They definitely wouldn't be happy.

I understand the problem but it'll clog up the works even more on various levels. I wish there was a neutral support button already coded into the game. (I'm looking at you Lioden staff)



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vertigoat 🦀 | G1
x2ros outlaw (#114297)


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Posted on
2024-04-15 18:22:06
"Mainly because I've never thought of it as gambling. Especially items like CRB and GMO Cow."

i will say, as someone who is fine with the gambling aspects of the game like breeding items or slots, the difference here is that there is no in-game function for this. you are relying on other players to have integrity and give you the items you've rightfully won. there's also no real way to moderate this currently, since there's no way to prove any given person scammed the game-players and gave them low value prizes on purpose. i wouldn't have an issue with this if lioden made a raffle/slots type function in the game where players can put in items into a prize pool that players can "spin the wheel" or whatever to win. i just would want percentages for the prizes to be public and for winning prizes to be out of the control of the gambling game owners. this would also ensure the game owners actually have those items and that they cannot spend them, since i vaguely remember there being issues where game owner(s) didn't have the actual prizes offered.

for me, supporting this thread is less about a general anti-gambling sentiment and more so about how easy it is to scam players with these games and, furthermore, it being impossible to moderate currently.

there's other posts i've already posted here that go into more detail with my thoughts on it so i'll spare you any more yapping lol



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Edited on 15/04/24 @ 18:27:26 by vertigoat 🦀 | outlaw (#114297)

πŸ—‘οΈ LunarKnight
[Project King] (#151072)


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Posted on
2024-04-15 18:46:36
Ah ok. I'd rather the forum games be banned due to the high possibility of getting scammed than because of gambling. Yes gambling is 1 issue but not the main one with the forum games. A in-game spin the wheel sounds exciting! Maybe they can use the coding for the raffle system and tweak it a bit to fit spin the wheel. Think it could be possible?



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