Posted by Hiding Triggering Images for Players

ratthew {G2 Torn
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Posted on
2020-03-04 20:56:58
WHEW. So. How about that news post?

For those uninformed, Lioden has officially stated that they're going to start rolling out more self-censorship features. This means that we, as players, can expect in the sometime future for there to be a feature that hides NSFW or gore images, and then some.

I don't know if this is due to our efforts on this topic or not, but either way, it's a HUGE win for everyone here. Thank you all so much for your support!

As with every other edit, I'm leaving the rest of this post the same. But as of right now, I think we can officially consider this a success! <3


EDIT: I'm putting this at the beginning because it's important. The event is over but this is STILL a problem that persists in the game. I implore you to not ignore this for the next year until more people have to go through this again. Thank you. Edit over.

Hi all! I realize this was posted about a year ago, and was met with a very split responses. So I'm here to also post! I please ask that you read the whole post before supporting or not supporting.

So, as the title says, this suggestion is to hide gore or bloody images for players who are sensitive to that sort of thing! Everyone pretty much gets the gist of what this is, as I have seen old topics like it. But I figure some people might have questions, so I'm prepared to answer those! Let's start with a bit of FAQ.

Q: This game is 16+, and should have gore/blood (and other adult themes) in it, as that's how lions work.

A: Sure! This game is 16+, but that doesn't mean everyone 16 or over wants to see a fairly realistic drawing of an elephant with its face torn off. Not seeing blood/gore wouldn't ruin an integral part of this game, such as taking away breeding, another 16+ topic. As for the "that's how lions work" part, well, this game isn't *really* that realistic, now is it? We literally have an event based around the apocalypse. We have green and blue and pink lions. We meet a manticore and fight with heaven and hell.

Q: Why not just disable the whole event?

A: Why should someone have to cease from playing the game because of something that can easily be avoided? Events are such an important part of this game and community, and to force someone not to be a part of it because they're sensitive to seeing images that depict terrible things isn't a good way to handle this. If someone wants to still participate, they should be able to! Also, the March event in particular also helps to raise funds for anti-poaching organizations. To force players to hide the event could negatively impact funds raised.

Q: Why can't you just use adblock and block the images that way?

A: First off, that would require having to look at the images first in order to get the image url to block them. Secondly, that doesn't work on mobile, which a LOT of players use primarily! Having a toggle would be much better suited for mobile players.

Q: Yeah, but I want to see gore.

A: You can! The idea I have in mind is a toggle that appears on a users page in the same area you would change your password. There, you can use a toggle to disable gorey images. Maybe in the future, if enough support is gained, there can be support for the sexually explicit images of lions in the February event.

Q: But there's so much other triggering stuff besides the event! How are you gonna hide that?

A: Simply put, you don't need to. If you don't want to interact with bloody looking lions, you don't have to. However, in order to enjoy the game to its fullest, you DO have to play the events. There is literally never a point in time on this site that there isn't an event going on.

Q: What would the images be instead?

A: Depends on what's easiest to do! It could be a blurred image instead, or the image could simply not load in, or it could just be replaced by a generic "BLOCKED" sign or something of the sort. It could also be an option to hide ALL event images while still keeping the event text up. Honestly, anything to make people more comfortable would work!

Q: Why should the devs waste time on this?

A: Well, because the players are important! Without them, there would be no game, and no matter how small the minority who NEED this are, the people who want it are probably a larger group in total. I'm uncomfortable with seeing this stuff, sure, but I'm not having a panic attack upon seeing this and being forced out of playing the whole game for a month because I physically cannot stand seeing it, like others are. I see no reason why people should be excluded from the fun of this game because of things that are out of their control, and I'd hope that the devs can see that too.


These are just some frequently asked questions I noticed on other similar boards I thought I'd take care of, but if anyone else has questions, please feel free to ask those! I'm very willing to talk to anyone who's interested in supporting, or anyone who is wary about supporting.

:::EDIT:::

Bezthiel made an absolutely excellent point, that I'm going to quote here:

"If the ToS says:
6.1
You are bound by, and must comply with, our Code of Conduct.

6.2
You also agree that you will not in connection with the Game:
breach any applicable law, regulation or code of conduct;
publish or send any Content (including links or references to other content), or otherwise behave in a manner, which:
is defamatory, threatening, harassing, invasive of privacy, offensive, vulgar, racist, hateful, discriminatory, obscene, pornographic, sexually suggestive, misleading, abusive or deceptive or which attacks sexual orientation, promotes self-harm or eating disorders, involves murder, rape, suicide, terrorism, excessive gore or hacking;

Then these are things that I can reasonably assume are not mentioned in site context.

Yet rape, suicide, and gore certainly are. We should either be warned or be able to opt out.

And before anyone says "but the newspost!" The 'excuse us for being blunt' is not the same as 'you will be shown pictures of horribly tortured, maimed, animals'. A warning is blunt."

A few suggestions have been made about the overall functioning of the system! In general, it seems a lot of people enjoy the idea of just disabling explore images in general. This is a simple solution and could work wonders for everyone.

On the other side of the spectrum, we have suggestions where players could pick and choose which images to disable, whether that be by a category (NSFW images) or by looking at a list of image descriptions and disabling them that way.

To reflect these options, I've changed the name of the topic from "Hiding Gore for Players" to "Hiding Triggering Images for Players" as we've come to the conclusion that it isn't just gore that's the problem.



This suggestion has 257 supports and 75 NO supports.



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Edited on 08/05/20 @ 12:11:20 by clay {CLEAN Solaris!} (#128553)

aloiria [2.2K g1
uneven] (#168423)

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Posted on
2020-04-24 03:35:03
Oh, sorry, misread. Fixed



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Ros [Side] (#80015)

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Posted on
2020-04-24 03:36:51
haha no worries. was just getting a bit confused, wondering If I had missed something in Clay's replies.



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aloiria [2.2K g1
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Posted on
2020-04-24 03:40:41
yea, so sorry about that imo

I’ve been reading through the whole thread the past 40 - isn minutes, just to see other’s views on it, too many names to remember.



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Edited on 24/04/20 @ 03:41:04 by aloiria [2k g1 uneven] (#168423)

mousecouch🕷️ (#21960)

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Posted on
2020-04-24 05:49:40
Like Kami, I also noticed the double standards of sex not being allowed in RP but also being ever present in other parts of the site. I put in a 1x1 thread "I don't have many limits we'll talk" or something of the sort and it was locked and I was given a warning. And yet there's a whole event about breeding and a whole event about bunnies breeding. It's just so.. weird? But I'm not mad, honestly find it a little comical.



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G1 Ice Primal (#193467)


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Posted on
2020-04-24 06:03:34
I get what Lioden is meant to be. It's essentially a bit like a nature documentary (game) with a fantastical side to it. Lions mate, cubs are born, you learn some cool nature facts along the way etc. And I get that this might be why the gore and the sex are there. Because it's not unusual for a nature documentary to plainly show these acts. It's not perverse if it's "educational" you see?
At the same time, adding an option to censure some NSFW is not gonna hurt the game. I bet the majority of players aren't going to use it and that's the point. It's an OPTIONAL thing for those who need it and I feel like that's fine.

In my opinion there should be a general "toggle NSFW" filter and an additional option to block individual images. That way you could either opt out of the gore and sex completely and/or block that specific image/s that's bothering you.

And to everyone saying that that's a lot of work for the mods etc. I say:
Yeah, that's kinda their job you know? And who do you thing brings in their income? The players! And if this has really been suggested so often I can see a lot of people wanting to support the game even more if they implement this.



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ratthew {G2 Torn
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Posted on
2020-04-24 06:45:22
@Dier I'm sorry to give you a short response, but no one is attacking you. I apologize that you took my response as a personal attack on your character; that was not my intent at all. You gave the post constructive criticism, and I returned my own criticism to your response. I do not think you're stupid for not supporting this, and I do not think you're stupid for having another opinion or ideas.

An entire system where people could opt out of certain images would be great- I just don't see a reason why someone should be forced to go through every image in order to check it off to have to never see it again, especially considering one of the main points in the original post is that the AdBlock workaround doesn't work because you need to see the image first, which is triggering. That is why my option for the toggle is more simple; allowing NSFW images, or disallowing NSFW images. If it was something more simple like "gore" "sexual themes" "death" etc., I can see that working as well, but if the mods truly are stretched thin, a simpler solution would be better for everyone. A list like "scenes with Apolloyon" "scenes with poachers" etc. would be... well, in all honesty, not overall useful.

This is a semi-realistic game about lions. People who sign up for this KNOW there's going to be death, there's going to be breeding, there's going to be tough themes to have to face, such as poaching. If someone doesn't like lions, they shouldn't play a lion game. But if someone cannot handle seeing gore or sexual images, that isn't their fault, and the coders have plenty of reason to make it so it isn't their problem, either.



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Ros [Side] (#80015)

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Posted on
2020-04-24 07:28:37
"The team would do better to think of a different option—such as allowing people to turn off images they don’t want to see, either based on the image or the encounter description."

I never said it would need to be based on the images. People could choose based on the encounter description and if it says "faceless elephant", they could disable it. Easy.



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Creek (#188551)

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Posted on
2020-04-24 08:35:42
(This seems to now be going into a much more defensive route which is disappointing.. criticism of an idea isn't the same as attacking someone)

I don't exactly see how having to choose every image you want censored is the most logical choice... That would mean if I don't want to see any of the gorey content, i would have to first look at it to turn it off, which imo defeats the purpose. A toggle would be much more efficient, because you wouldn't even have to look at the images to turn off NSFW/gore. And in this sort of situation, a "half-solution" would still be beneficial than nothing at all.

"People could choose based on the encounter description and it it says 'faceless elephant', they could disable it."

I don't exactly understand the meaning of this. Are you saying people would read the encounter description of the nsfw image and choose to block it? The image would be right above the encounter description, so you would most likely still be looking at the image anyway.. i mean, when i explore, my eyes are always glued to the image portion of the screen, and i'm sure i'm not the only one.



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Edited on 24/04/20 @ 08:36:11 by Creek [g2 MR Ice Shreds] (#188551)

aloiria [2.2K g1
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Posted on
2020-04-24 09:06:30
The issue with OP’s idea is that this idea doesn’t solve the problem for everyone.

Personally, I find some of the demon encounters and zombies in the October event disturbing to a point that threw me off playing for the Angels and half the entire event, yet this wouldn’t fix my issue.

I find everything in February, March and the rest of October perfectly fine, but seeing running cheetah with popped out, bloodshot eyes tossing itself at the player is no doubt up there with the faceless elephant. To me, that is worse since at least the elephant is dead, the cheetah is still walking and probably screaming in agony.

I feel like again, a ‘block all images’ per event’ would be better since people have different ideas of what is disturbing to them.

The button could be beside the transfer event currency section, beside each event is a ‘disable [insert event name] images’. This would block every image related to that event (Could be separate for October, where you can block either angel or demon images, ect). Not only would this option be better and fix the flaws of OP’s idea, but cover it for more then just February or March, it could be for everyone. This would for sure be way easier to script for the team, making it less of a daunting task that would have to be updated everytime a thread demanded xyz’s image to be blocked as well.

It’d just be a case of tough luck if you don’t want ALL of a event’s images blocked. That would be the price to pay for the block itself.



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Edited on 24/04/20 @ 09:08:07 by aloiria [2k g1 uneven] (#168423)

Creek (#188551)

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Posted on
2020-04-24 09:31:57
I like that idea of simply blocking the event images, because i agree that everyone has their own sense of NSFW.

But, the images that you described (such as the cheetah or the zombie encounters) would probably fall under the NSFW/gore.

Still i think either thing is valid. The only problem is that "tough luck" has the same kind of tone as the "don't be a pussy" argument for seeing the gore. There shouldn't really be a price to pay just to ensure safety. The NSFW toggle definitely *would* solve the issue with people that don't want to see the images. The people that want to see the images just won't activate the block.

Additionally, i don't think it would be that difficult to define NSFW and gore to prevent people from, as you said, creating a thread to demand an image is deemed NSFW. For example, "sexually suggestive", "excessive gore", and "pornographic". The main issue that ofc comes with this is "what defines gore?". Well, as many others have pointed out, there's somewhat of a double-standard here with what is allowed that falls into those categories. Perhaps this more needs to be sorted out with the mods and devs first, before anything can really be established.

Before the question about what defines "excessive gore", "sexually suggestive", and the others can be answered, there needs to be a clear set of rules that aren't twisted or bent. The rules need to be consistent throughout the site.

Edit: simple grammar and wording :)



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Edited on 24/04/20 @ 09:34:41 by Creek [g2 MR Ice Shreds] (#188551)

aloiria [2.2K g1
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Posted on
2020-04-24 09:54:28
Again, a ‘block nsfw / gore’ still wouldn’t fully fix the issue. It’s just a bandaid

Other people find other things triggering or disturbing, what I found disturbing might fall under it, but those people who think of other encounters as disturbing would still be left out.

As well as people who just flat-out do not want to see a event’s images. Disabling [insert event] images would be hitting two birds with one stone : Allowing people who’re triggered by event’s images to disable them, and for users who dont want to participate in the event : they’ll see that a encounter does not have a image and go ‘Alright, that’s a event one - skip’ and just click explore yet again.

‘Tough luck’ is for the fact i dont think it is a good idea to go through and slowly find images to fit under a ‘disable nsfw images’, and people for sure will suggest other images to be disabled. It’d only be a matter of time, no matter how many the team block.



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Creek (#188551)

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Posted on
2020-04-24 10:15:41
There are two different issues here, but both of them relate to each other. There are NSFW/gore images that are not able to be blocked, and there is a double-standard with some of the rules.

Now if the mods and developers don't have enough time to go through the images and choose the ones that are to be deemed NSFW, I think your idea definitely is handy as a last resort. But again, that idea is also moreso of what you might consider a band-aid. With disabling all event images comes a price. While the toggle admittedly might take some work to figure out which images are to be deemed NSFW, once established, it would be a definitive answer to the problem.

In the end there are multiple problems with every suggestion on how to do this. However, a toggle that allows you to fine-tune content you don't want to see would be nice. Blocking all event imagery is extremely broad, but still useful if nothing else.

But even that can't come into place if this suggestion isn't supported. To not support is to simply say "no" to people wanting to at least in some way block the gore/NSFW images.



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Ros [Side] (#80015)

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Posted on
2020-04-24 10:32:54
Creek. I meant that there ought to be a page dedicated to allowing people to choose which encounters they do and do not want to see. A page similar to the wiki for each event (plus then generic encounters) which could have just the event descriptions and not the images.



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Ros [Side] (#80015)

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Posted on
2020-04-24 10:36:29
i.e. a page similar to this one with all of the event encounters listed, but just the descriptions;

http://liodenwiki.wikidot.com/march-event-anti-poaching#toc4

For example, like this:


_________________________________


A baby elephant is rubbing its head against dead mother's body, clearly murdered by poachers.

[hide artwork button]

A bucking African wild ass has just crossed your path! This rare donkey must have travelled far, searching for a true wilderness to call home.

[hide artwork button]

A creature is climbing a safou tree, shaking it a little. It seems that insects are feeding on the tree's rotting fruit. What a perfect spot for the tree pangolin!

[hide artwork button]

A distressed long-tailed pangolin is wiggling around among the branches. You notice it's entangled in a poaching net and is having trouble climbing properly.

[hide artwork button]

A group of people appears in a safe distance from you and they seem to free an animal from a trap. They leave in a machine, and you think, maybe not all humans are so bad.

[hide artwork button]




_________________________________



In this case, players probably wouldn't want to disable the second two encounters but could tell there would be potentially disturbing content in the first so could hide that event image.



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Edited on 24/04/20 @ 10:36:49 by Dier ~ x5 Rosette ~ x13 Feline (#80015)

Creek (#188551)

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Posted on
2020-04-24 10:44:46
I like that idea. Like, it's a separate list with the encounter descriptions that allows you to toggle off each individual encounter. That would allow people to customize it to their own needs without seeing the images themselves (and usually the descriptions don't give a super specific description themselves, but you still get the idea of what the image will look like).

The only thing is it would take a while to create an individual toggle for every single encounter for each event, BUT once it is over with, no more work is needed (unless a new encounter is added ofc). So the effort would be worth it.



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