Posted by Unwanted overflow cubs and what to do with them
WitchWolf (#5939)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-05-29 06:03:16
Well, we're all seeing what's been going on lately - The game is way overflooded with excess cubs that are getting cheaper by teh dozen and in the end, only clutter the game for no good reason at all.

Now, on one hand, there are those players who are complaining their custom studs' cubs can't sell for big buck any more. Personally, I don't care - this is not a lion selling game so... tough luck.

On the other hand are those who, like me, would like to push for realism and would like to see the overflow of breedings and excess cubs done away with for those reasons alone. Those in the 'selling camp' can jsut as well tell the 'realistic' camp the same thing - Tough luck.

And then, of course, are those players who jsut like to take a few relaxing moments to look at some pretty lions and produce even more pretty lions because that's the way they like it. And no one should dictate to anyone else how to "properly" play their game - whatever amuses you the most is perfectly fine, right?

All that said, we do have one big common problem with excess cubs on here. People can't sell them, others are forced to chase away even when they don't want to. market is out of wack (since cubs are, for now, the only thing we're really actively tradign with one another) and subsequently, so is the overall economy.

Of course, you can always chase the cubs away and many people on here do exactly that. Some others don't, however and others yet are overflowing the market with low-end cubs, even giving them away for free because they jsut don't want to chase the cute little furballs away for purely sentimental reasons.


So, what to do to make all of us happy here - those who love studding their lions out cheaply, those who'd like to see only 'worthy' cubs on the market, those who'd like to force the prices up (or further down) again...?

Well, one thing that could go long ways to achieve that would be to create a way to sell the excess cubs directly to the game itself. Please bear with me while I expand the concept further:

Create a "cubs game store" and call it something like... "Lion Conservation Project" for example. If you can't sell a cub to other players and don't want to chase them away, your third alternative is to sell the cub to the "Conservation Range" instead.

Now, the symbolic fee you'd recieve for doing that should not be something big - Don't expect to sell the cublet for 500 SBs or 5 GBs or something. What you would be doing is a bit of a charity service there - you'd donate the cubs to a project dedicated to preserving and conserving the species, a project that would later on use those cubs or theri offspring to reintroduce the lions back in the areas in which they got extinct.
...Or whatever other suitable blurb suits you. I'm a biologist, so I like this one best. :P

However, not all cubs are really worth teh same, are they now? Someone would 'donate' a high statted cub and someone else a very low-statted one and they both get the same symbolic payment for them? Not fair. Or how about the difference between custom and non-custom lions, numbers of markings... everything?

Well, we'd calculate the payment you recieve based on several factors:

If you donate a high-stat cub, you'd get more than for donating a low-end one.

Far as the blurb goes, let's say that you just donated a healthy, strong new individual that is almost certain to survive to reproduce and create healthy offspring in turn. Good for you! You just made a huge difference in lion conservation project!

However, what if you donate a low-stat but high-markign or custom-coloured cub instead? Again, you'd recieve more than for donating the low-marking or wild-coloured one.

And the blurb for that would say that you have just introduced some very fresh and very valubale new blood to the overall gene pool. We all know (I hope) that one of the biggest problems in conservation is the extremely depeleted gene pools of the endangered species that we start from and therefore, donating 'fresh blood' (in other words custom colours/markings and so on) should be valubale in their own rights.


Small clarification here:
Since it has been pointed out in enough many comments that the idea of a lion intentionally giving cubs to humans is highly unrealistic, let me explain it a bit better. What the blurb would say would be something along the lines of "Humans came and picked out some cubs". What would actually happen game-mechanics-wise is that you, the player, would pick which cubs to donate.

I did not want to put the blurb first because people might get the wrong idea that I'm suggesting random cubs be taken from their dens without their input or agreement.


What do I hope to accomplish with this? For one, give some sort of a "drainage" route for the excess cublets on here. With this feature in place, many players would opt to donate the cubs there rather than go through a hassle of tryig to sell them or give them away. That would automatically mean far less clogging of the market and that, in turn, might give the prices a chance to stabilize in a more reasonable manner.

Finally, it could provide a small starting income for the new players - not much, but at least something. And also, a way to make those who just love breeding a chance to play the way they like palying without creating some huge disbalances in the process.


edit
I crunched some numbers for the "Conservation Center" now:

plain coat: 3SB
custom coat: 5SB
stats: 1 SB per 2 stats over 35 (rounded down)
:markings 4SB per marking (regardless of opacity)

Just to give you a rough idea of how that would work:

"Best" case scenario:

Custom-coloured, 10-marking cub with 100 stats:

5 (custom coat) + 15 (stats) + 40 (10 markings) = 60 SB

"Worst" case scenario:

Wild-coloured, 0-3 markings cub with under 30 stats:

3 (wild coat) + 0 (stats) + 0-12 (markings) = 3-15 SB

I'd say the prices are nicely evened-out; you'd be getting a really token payment for a very valubale cub and you'd get just enough to play a few Cups or glance at a Scrying Stone for a sub-par one.

Because the whole idea is to provide a way to do away with the excess cubs, not to provide a way to make tons of SBs.


edit

idea by Nephala [TCC] (#11886):
"Addition to the conservation to get people tossing cubs there instead of the TC would be a yearly reward from the "breeding stock," in the conservation sent on your birthday or a certain day of the year if you have donated enough cubs to the conservation. I'd think the "prize" could be anything from high stat lionesses to custom colored ladies."

alternate suggestion by Lynx (Raion) (#1885):
And maybe instead of custom ladies the prize could be gb for "highest donator for the year" so that no one can say "that wouldn't be fair for the people who buy/work hard for gb" or something along the lines since it would happen once a year.. And maybe have a certain amount of winners?


addition by muttduck (#78):
NONE of them [NCLs] should be in heat when claimed.

---while this does not pertain to the idea directly, it still deals with the overflow cublets problem and thus I added it in.
~~~~~~



This, of course, is just rough bone frame of an idea. Developing it further - how to determine the payments recieved to make them both reasonable and balanced above all needs some further tought. And since I'd rather not sit and ponder it all on my ownsies, I'm putting this up for discussion to see what others might come up with along these lines.

I'll make few suggestions to start it off:

---We could have a leaderboard for the "most cubs donated" or "most healthy cubs doanted" or "most genetically diverse cubs donated"

---We could have something like... badges or fame or however you choose to call it - a third in-game currency of sorts that, if you gain enough of it, would give you access to some special perks or something. Yes, yes, this would mean making a whole new "badge" or "fame" thing beforehand but... it's an idea at least.

And now I'd like to swim in a flood of yours! :P




This suggestion has 696 supports and 5 NO supports.



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Edited on 07/06/13 by WitchWolf (#5939)

Illynx (#11886)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-05-30 02:29:03
VeeVee said something in the Cbox today regarding the chasing of lions and them reappearing in the wild that totally did away with my idea of raising to 2 and chasing - apparently, custom eye colors and coats are reset to common colors. I'm double checking with her now to make sure before I post this reply, but I'm going to go ahead and say that if that is the case, I'd rather give them away in TC than chase as far as our current options go. x3 And yeah, VeeVee just double verified that they are reset to common coats and eye colors.

I do really enjoy the idea of the "conservation" though. As a relatively new player who doesn't usually spend real money on her games (unless it's Christmas or something), I've found that my main SB focus is going to buying nice starting lionesses and stud fees to pretty lions for girls I'm going to keep, as well as GB purchases for customizing my side lion. Right now my cubs aren't the best quality and I'm having a hard time selling them or giving them away, even when they are 60+ stat. I am also sorta silly about just chasing them into deletion, and I'd rather not send them to be deleted in other dens, so this provides a way to still make some money on the little buggers and feel good about not murdering your imaginary cubs. :'D I think so long as it stays at like 1/2 a SB per stat point and say 15 SB per marking I don't think you'll make a ton of profit doing it that way so the market values for nice cubs don't plummet.

I also have a hard time finding anything I want to spend money on in the TC because of all the poor stat, ugly things in there. xD I think that new players get excited coming into a game and seeing such high prices up from lions that have less than 50 stats and think that they can pull this off too, hence all the early bred spam lions. A good way to help alleviate all the traffic in there would be a way to sort through the trades and search for what you want, i.e. coat colors, eye colors, markings, gender, stat ranges, particular items, ect., that way serious buyers can find what they want, no matter how they chose to play the game.

But anyway, I support this idea. :3



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WitchWolf (#5939)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-05-30 04:43:32
Well... Consider me postiviely fuming right now! Because if that is truly so, than there was one big, fat lie posted on that newspost! I quoted it verbatim and it clearly says that they "keep their looks!" So, the devs better make good on their word now...

But for now, time for plan B - raise to adolescence and give away as freebies.


All right, ranting aside. Again, thanks for the detailed reply. :

Far as the payment from the hypothetical conservation center goes, I was thinking something in the range of 3 SBs for a plain cublet, 5 SBs for a custom coloured one, 2 SBs for every 4 stats above... the average 35-ish that regular NCLs have, 4SBs for every marking the cub has.

At best, if you give away a 10-marking custom-coloured cub with around... 100 stats, you could net in... *calculates*...

5 (custom base) + 15 (stats) + 40 (10 markings) = 60SBs

Which realy isn't a lot, and that is assuming you gave up a very valubale cub there. Most people would likely 'donate' 20-ish stats wild-coloured cubs with 0-3 markings tops so...

3 (wild base) + 0 (low stats) + 12 (3 markings) = 15 SBs

Just enough to play Cups 3 times or check the Scrying Stone 5 times. ;)



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Illynx (#11886)

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Posted on
2013-05-30 04:47:53
That's a nice ratio. :3 Most people won't be tossing aside 100 stat 10 marking cubs I don't imagine, unless a leader board position for doing just that was in place, but heck 15 SB is better than what you get from the monkey for most items right now lol



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DragonSage (#4453)

Notable Lion
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Posted on
2013-05-30 06:21:33
Another benefit to this idea is it would give a baseline price for cubs (much like the monkey business has done for carcasses)



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WitchWolf (#5939)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-05-30 06:45:00
Now that you mentioned it... it might. But then, with my current numbers, a 100 stat 10-markign custom cub would have the base price of 60SBs which even I consider to be way too low. ;)

However, the base price for wild-type, low-stat cub does seem about right...



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DragonSage (#4453)

Notable Lion
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Posted on
2013-05-30 06:58:21
Well considering I've seen people giving away customs because they couldn't sell them; the baseline at least gives something. Obviously most people wouldn't sell their 100 stat cub for a mere 60 SB; much like how the average price for a use of food is about 10 SB while the monkey gives you about 3 SB a use



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WitchWolf (#5939)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-05-30 07:14:55
Yeah... As somene who is getting ready to give away a bunch of half-customs once they are born, I will agree that even 60 SB is more than some cublets can fetch on the market these days.

Of course, since I'm first after stats, I wouldn't give even 10 SBs for a low-statted cub, regardless of markings, but that's just me.

Overall, if you think even this much could provide some sort of a rough guideline to pricing, even better - A welcome bonus to having some place to get rid of cubs.

Of course, if this got implemented, no one would chase away a single cub any more - Why, if they can get at least 3-10 SBs for it instead? Which woudl than be yet anotehr source of SBs on the game, SBs that we have nothing to spend on as things are now.

One way to go about it would be to get more SB items to spend money on.

Another way would be to perhaps limit the number of cubs one can get SBs for. Say, for example, up to 5-10 cubs per lion's year (ie, 12 days, the counter starting either the day first cub is given to the center or the counter is set according to the lion's current age, whichever would work). Any cub above the limit during the same cycle nets you a smile and a pet on the back.

And yet nother way would be to have some sort of "badges" or "fame" or "stars" or whatever symbolical rewards given instead of SBs although that would, of course, mean such a rewards system is coded in first. And in this version, we'd lose the aditional advantage of having the base prices somewhat regulated.

I'm partial to teh second solution myself, but I remain open to suggestions.



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Shasta Rou (#4673)

Majestic
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Posted on
2013-05-30 11:13:08
i support this.. im sick of seeing 50sb customs 1-50sb studs.. which has me wondering why would someone want to stud their male that low if they paid gb for it :/



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~World Of A Horse~
CIU (#2964)

Kind
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Posted on
2013-05-30 11:24:41
SUPPORT!



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Tavi (#1512)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-05-30 11:47:02
I fully support this. Prices on cubs have become a bit ridiculous. I'll admit I do breed more often then I should, usually looking for certain markings, but what do I do with the cubs that are just boring? I end up selling them for 10-25 SB, which really does bring the market down.

I have yet to see a custom colored lioness while exploring, nothing at all unusual so I have the feeling that they are reset, which seems like a waste.

I remember reading someones post when studding became an option and they were upset that they couldn't make the stud fee free, they stated that they wanted their lion over bred, which to me is strange, but to each their own. Others think if they set their lions stud price to say 25 SB that they will get a higher quantity of breedings that will overall top what they would have got say they had charged 150sb, which I think is true. You get a new player who sees 2 custom lions, one for 25 SB and one for 150 SB, it is obvious which one they will choose. I think we need a daily cap on breedings. The leader board is another problem, people just adding to the cub population trying to get most cubs bred.



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Ronnie J (#1393)

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Posted on
2013-05-31 14:51:25
Support



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Lynx (#1885)

Usual
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Posted on
2013-05-31 18:44:58
Which wolf how about instead of selling them this happens;

the conservation people see your pride and decide to take lion x to be thrown into a reservation to do some good for its species you get plus x sb

That way your no giving a member of the pride up, but the member is being taken away:) . I believe that would be more realistic since conservationalist move around animals to create a more diverse gene pool and it's not like your male is willingly letting them go, but you can't go against tranque guns.

Support



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Lexxie (#2936)

Fearsome
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Posted on
2013-05-31 19:45:24
Support this idea, seems like a nice way to even everything up :)



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WitchWolf (#5939)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-05-31 21:28:46
Lynx,

What would actually happen, game-mechanics wise would be you technically selling th cub there.

However, as far as the accompanying blurb goes, I fully agree - It would really be something like that.

the only reason I did not include the blurb but only the mechanics is because some players could misread that as the conservationalists coming and taking a random cub from the pride instead of the one they choose to give away.

That said, blurb ideas are more than welcome.



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Illynx (#11886)

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Posted on
2013-06-03 21:45:19
Was thinking about it last night, and a need addition to the conservation to get people tossing cubs there instead of the TC would be a yearly reward from the "breeding stock," in the conservation sent on your birthday or a certain day of the year if you have donated enough cubs to the conservation. I'd think the "prize" could be anything from high stat lionesses to custom colored ladies.



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