@Atrox:
It is STILL giving an unfair advantage to those with excessive breeding over those who are smart and dont breed the heck out of their lionesses for no apparent reason.

I ask once more: what would you give in exchange to those who dont breed mindlessly and arent destroying the market?

That you are overflowed with cubs is your own trouble you have created for yourself. One shouldnt be attached to pixels in the first place or else bear the consequences of your own foolishness. One disadvantage someone should have if they cant part with their lions but hoards them like crazy. One has to learn to let go. End of story.

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@Axel:

I don't really see how making maybe a few hundred SB a week is an "unfair advantage"? If they're keeping that many lionesses, they're probably just spending it on food anyway since it would be hard for 5 lionesses to feed 20+, I would think.

Why would I "give" them anything? The people doing that don't need to be "given". They're still selling cubs well, usually for in excess of 2GB/2,000 SB from what I've seen. Why do they need to be rewarded for that?

Personally, I think this idea would "reward" them in a way. All those give-away cubs, cheap lionesses, and dramatic trades/posts of "HAVE TO GO NOW! WILL TAKE ANYTHING" would be gone. Instead of flooding the trade center and forums with constant attempts to sell lionesses/cubs no one is interested in, they can get their instant sell for a small amount of money.

It would OPEN the market for the cubs that actually have 250+ stats and give those trying to sell quality cubs a better chance since their posts/trades aren't going to be buried in "CUBS MUST GO NOW! SUPER CHEAP!" and "NCL IN HEAT, CHEAP!" advertisements.

The advantage would go to the sellers with valuable cubs, not the people making 3 sb for a poor-statted cub no one wants. To make what someone with quality makes, they'd have to "mass breed" for MONTHS and that's not even close to viable. A good breeder can easily make 5-10 GB out of a decent litter of 2 cubs with the right stats/coloring. In order for people to do it with the idea I proposed, they would have to constantly breed for real-life months to make even 5 GB. That's really not the huge unfair advantage you keep implying.

Personally, I'm not "overflowed" with anything right now. I just joined, but I did research and my goal is currently to get my sub-male up to replace my rolled male. My rolled male is there to build territory and such for my sub-male to take over. My sub-male has good coloring, decent lines, and I'm patrolling him like crazy and don't intend to let him take over until he has at least 500 stats.

I have a bunch of NCLs right now, but I'm not breeding them. I'm hunting/training them up so that I can feed my pride and maybe sell a little extra. I'm selectively choosing females with good success at hunting and chasing the ones that don't meet the standards I set.

I have no interest in willy-nilly breeding, but I think you're being a little pushy about your way being the only way. You can't really go "End of Story" when it's a discussion about options and ideas for the game. Maybe that's your end, but not everyone agrees. I personally think it's not a terrible idea and would HELP the market and the quality breeders in the long run and I think you're over exaggerating this "unfair advantage" and how it's terrible to quality breeders. I really don't see how at all. Quality sells.

Quality will always sell. A new player being able to get rid of a poor litter of cubs and an NCL mother for less than 20 SB is not going to suddenly make a 500+ stat cub worthless. That 500+ stat cub is still going to be worth 3,000 sb/3 GB or more depending on coloration.

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Not everyone who doesnt breed mindlessly is actually TRADING anything. I for one dont have a big pride, dont breed mindlessly like crazy and dont sell any cubs. I would rage if I found that people who make the mistake of destroying the market and cause this distress actually get some kind of 'reward' for chasing. Because even if it isnt much, it still helps them. And what kind of reward would I get for not destroying the market if they get SB?

What we need to teach these mindless cubbreeders is that if a cub doesnt sell, then they are to be chased. We have to teach them to use that tiny little button we call 'chase off'. It isnt so bad to have it and use it. One problem less to deal with. They have to learn to NOT get attached to pixels or else deal with the consequences of their own foolishness. Later they learn that they cant keep up and will start to chase off, or they will keep being foolish and hoard. Then they suffer forever. That's it.

With giving people money for chasing, you will only SUPPORT mass-breeding, as they will know they get money one way or another, and while they are there, they will actually try to sell them first. There will be more cubs. Not less.

If you start rewarding mass-breeders, then I would like to see people rewarded who dont breed excessively.

Perhaps one way -that doesnt give advantage- would be that if a lioness gives birth at each possible heat, then the litters will be smaller and smaller, losing fertility slowly until they wont even get pregnant. They would need to rest at least three heats until their fertility comes back.

Second is what I said. Instead of giving them money, give them the ability to breed sooner if they chase the cubs. So if they dont sell, or dont have the same colors you were looking for, you can just chase them and breed after the normal 9 days cooldown.

Third is to only be able to sell and transfer only one cub from a litter. So if you end up with a litter of three, you have to choose one cub which you can sell later. Up until adulthood, where you can sell them all. As adolescent, you can only sell and transfer one of the litter. This might raise the value and price of cubs, as the breeders do need to take care of them for a long time and spend money on them.

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I think this idea is great! :)
I support this idea! :)

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@Axel

I'm afraid I don't understand that logic. You choose not to participate in the economy as I'm understanding it? You breed for yourself on a small scale and sell nothing? Why would I reward you for not being a part of the economy? If that is the way it is, this would not effect you in the slightest. You wouldn't get any money, but neither would you lose anything. Why do you need a reward for that? Why do you deserve one? Why do you need one? It sounds as if you're self-sufficient so why should the game pat you on the head for not being involved in an aspect that many are?

And no, that's not "it". That's it for you, but not everyone is you and not everyone plays the game the way you do. Just because that is your standard, your opinion, and how you think it is done does not mean it is "right". Now, I'm not saying I am 100% right, but I'm not trying to force you or anyone to play the game my way. It sounds to me like you are.

"I don't care about my pixels and neither should you! If you care, you need to just stop it!" Now, an unhealthy attachment is one thing, but to me, this game is almost like having, say, a fish tank. I feed it, tend to it, I enjoy having it and maintaining it, and I watch over. However, I don't really interact with the fish. The fish don't "love" me. If a fish is too troublesome for a tank, I would take it out for the good of the rest and probably flush it down the toilet. It's the same for me if a lioness turns out not to meet my standard and I chase her. I interacted, I tried, I enjoyed seeing where she was going, but in the end, I had to get rid of her for the good. However, I don't expect everyone to follow that same standard I set for myself.

I can understand how people can get more attached to their fish (to continue the example) and want to tend a sick one, or figure out a way to keep one, even if it's aggressive or troublesome. I don't have a right to demand they do it MY way. Nor do you. There's no need to passively insult people for a fondness for something, just because you don't share it. You don't need to call them fools or insult them. People feel differently about different things. Their way isn't your way. Deal with it, as they say. No one is telling you to keep every lion, so why should you demand they get rid of something just because you do?

I agree, I don't see chasing is bad, but some people don't like the idea. Respect that as their choice. Don't insult them for it. No one is forcing you to do anything different.

Once again, please explain this "big reward". It is not rewarding anything. It's probably barely recouping the loss of food, and the same cool downs would apply. They have gained very little (if anything) from the situation. It has simply given a better encouragement to clean up the market, thus IMPROVING the economy and allowing better quality lions to take the spotlight instead of being drowned by the excess.

And what reward do you feel you deserve for not helping the market at all even if you don't hinder it? I don't really see how that deserves any kind of reward at all. If you have the SB you need for things, food for your lions, and are content to remain self-sufficient than...what exactly more do you need/want?

The small amount of money to turn-in cubs instead of chase would only allow the newer people to be more self-sufficient. Instead of posts begging for free food and constant help, they would have a small amount of SB to buy food for their lions as needed. Even if they suddenly "got rich" by this (which I don't see how, but just saying if they did), where is that money going to go? To the people trying to sell their higher quality lions! There you go. There's the reward. The "rich" would get richer because the economy would be better and people would be able to give them the money they deserve for their lions instead of the lions just sitting there.

Personally, I see this as a win-win. Players could feed their prides themselves, the market would have less unwanted cubs, and people would be more likely to buy the better cubs still remaining on the market. Where exactly is the harm and where is anyone not getting what they want/need? Where is anyone losing out on that?

As to the first solution, I don't find that realistic and honestly see that as being unfair to the quality breeders more than the ones mass-producing using NCLs. The ones producing with NCLs usually breed her once, sell the cubs, chase her, and get a new one. That wouldn't stop their breeding a bit. However, what if someone has a high quality lioness with good stats and a desirable color whose cubs are in good demand? They breed them every cycle; are you going to punish them for having a female that is in demand? How is that fair? That would be punishing the people producing quality a lot more than the "mass breeders".

For the second, I don't agree at all. THAT is rewarding them for mass-breeding a lot more than a measly 3 SB for an unwanted cub. Letting them breed sooner would encourage them to breed even more. Cubs don't sell the first day? Chase, breed again, try those, rinse repeat. The market would be completely flooded with low quality still. And it would still leave those with high-statted cubs struggling to get theirs sold because it would be more of a loss for them to try that tactic. So no, I can't agree with that at all.

Three, once again, that's punishing those NOT flooding the market a lot more than the ones that are. Let's use the example of the quality female whose litters are very in-demand. Instead of having 2-3 cubs to sell, she will only have one. That will make those prices skyrocket and thus far harder to meet, resulting in breeders being stuck with the cubs longer and causing them more trouble. For the "mass breeders", they can just sell the one, get rid of the female, get a new NCL and start over. NCLs aren't exactly rare and since they are more concerned with the numbers, there's no reason for them to keep the female. It wouldn't hurt anyone but the quality breeders in my opinion.

I honestly don't see any of your three solutions helping anyone but the mass-breeders. In fact, that's encouraging them to breed more I would think, in the effort for easy money. It would flood the market even more.

I still find it a far more viable situation to allow the new/inexperienced breeders a small source of income by this idea so they can become self-sufficient in terms of feeding their own prides and making those with attachments feel better about getting rid of the excess. It would serve the exact same purpose as chasing, but would be more likely to be used and would help the economy in my opinion.

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It is not about me. It is about the community. Maybe I am not part of the economy because of this disaster. maybe I dont even want to be a part of it. But there are many who are and face this problem. I am not speaking for myself here, I rarely do, I am speaking for the others who have small prides as me or dont breed excessively, and take care of the economy, sell cubs but dont overdo it. THESE people need a reward if you reward those who breed excessively. Because if mass-breeders get this, what do these people get in return for the care and caution, for the planned breeding and consideration?

It is one thing it is not my style, but the style they are using is harming the economy. And if it is harming the economy, then sadly the community and staff has to step in to correct it, or they will end up with this and suffering along with it. it is like you tell me that I shouldnt tell a kid that throwing in the window of the neighbor with a rock is bad and he shouldnt do it, but let him do this, letting the neighbor suffer for it. Normally this is when the police(staff) comes along when he doesnt listen and he has to suffer the consequences for his actions. Now if the police wouldnt have done anything, that kid would have thrown in the window of the neighbor daily with a rock. In this case mass-breeders need to realize that what they are doing is harming the economy. You cant reward them with money, no matter how small it is. because the kid would throw in the window of the neighbor for half a dollar if you just 'reward' him for it. Just for the hell of getting something for it. This is human nature. You dont catch criminals either by telling them that they get money if they give themselves in. No. They understand that they are doing something bad by punishing them with prison or money charges.

I dont see why my solution of breeding sooner wouldnt help. After all, they might put the cub up for sale, but to actually sell it they do need to raise it, dont they? So if it doesnt sell, they will have to actually chase and they wont give the cubs away or sell them for ridiculous prices, disrupting the economy, but chase it as a cub still to have the 9 days cooldown. Having cubs on your account doesnt yet harm anyone. Only then once you can start selling them as adolescents.

It is so easy to put a stop to NCL breeding as well. I myself dont understand why the staff doesnt implement those ideas already.
1. Each time you claim a lioness, the lioness has 9 days cooldown. Always.
2. Level restricted breeding. The lioness should only be breedable from level 10.
3. Cubs with low stats have a high chance of dying after birth.
These were all suggested -by other people- in the market thread, but are all of them ignored by the staff so far. With all these implemented the NCL breeding at least would be limited. Not solved, but limited.

All in all, I say the mass-breeders need a punishment and not a reward for having so many cubs and breeding like this. Dont give them money because it just keeps them going. And btw, with your fishtank example there is one problem:

Learning responsibility.

If you know responsibility, then you wont let your other fish suffer or the fish itself if it just doesnt work. But end it. if you are inconsiderate, then not only the fish, but all the other fish will suffer all along.

They have to learn that their actions and breeding has consequences. BAD consequences. Not good. They have to be shown and punished for it. Not rewarded with SB. Sure, it sounds amazing for breeders to get SB for chasing, but all the others who actually plan ahead and dont cause this disaster.... what about them? What reward do they get for keeping the economy clean? Nothing? But the mass-breeders get something?

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I meant the you as a more general thing, not a YOU personally, Axel. For people who aren’t involved in the economy, I don’t see how economic shifts are somehow going to bother them. They’re fine now, they’ll be fine then. This kind of thing being added wouldn’t help me a bit either. I haven’t bred a single cub yet. Not one. I don’t even try to sell NCLs; a little research showed me there was no market, not even for ones with 5+ levels. So I simply chase them. Would it be nice to get a few SB for them to cover the cost of the food for keeping them 3 or 4 days? Sure, but it’s not really going to make or break me. My entire goal is to cut my pride to 5 females that are successful hunters to keep my pride self-sufficient. I’m not putting this out here as a solution that benefits me in any way. It doesn’t.

Once again, what huge reward are you even talking about? A tiny amount of SB? That’s not some huge advantage. You seem fixated on this “rewarding” them when really it’s not. If they’re breeding on the scale you seem to think it won’t even let them break even. Can you please explain how this is really going to impact the game negatively at all? You are ranting about it rewarding people you have decided are “bad”, but you haven’t really explain how other than going “it’s not fair! It’s not fair!”. Please explain how it’s horribly unfair to anyone if the excess gets removed from the game, lessens the lag, and opens the market up for the higher quality cubs that currently are buried in the excess?

As for the breeders you’re talking about, they will be getting a reward. Yes, it’s not the measly 5 SB for chasing off an adolescent, but they will actually have a less flooded market to sell their cubs in. Cubs they will get considerably more than 5 SB for. Right now, from what I’m seeing, cubs with decent color/markings and 300 stats are selling for about 500+ SB. To get that by “mass breeding” to give them away for 5 SB, they would need to breed 100 cubs. That is a lot of breeding and time. Cubs with 400+ stats are easily selling for 1-2 GB, putting them at 1,000-2,000 sb or more. With one breeding, the good breeders are already benefiting a lot more than the inexperienced ones. So, again, I’m missing this huge reward to people. All it’s doing is encouraging them to actually be responsible and get rid of the cubs instead of holding onto it for the vain hope someone is going to want it.

Now, I don’t agree that you can compare people breeding out of ignorance as a “crime”, such as breaking windows. Someone throwing a rock through a window knows it’s bad if they have any common sense. The people just starting don’t know it’s “bad” to breed. Honestly, it’s not bad. It’s part of the POINT of the entire game. Many of them have no clue that what they’re breeding or doing is not desirable for the market. The game encourages you to breed and be “king of your pride!”. This is less like a kid being dared to break a window and more like handing a kid some cookies than slapping their hand and yelling at them for “ruining their dinner”. You put the cookies in their hand, implied they could eat them, and then you jump all over them and punish them? That’s not fair or teaching them anything. That’s being a jerk in my opinion. These people aren’t “criminals” nor being malicious. They simply have no idea of the intricacies of the breeding market. Implying they’re bad and should be punished is rather self-righteous in my opinion. Did you start the game and immediately know everything? Of course not. I didn’t either. I joined with the intent to learn and went about doing just that, but not everyone has the same somewhat competitive outlook I have. I certainly don’t know everything about the game and am not implying I do. There are plenty of people in the same boat.

I don’t see it helping at all still. I think it would leave the economy exactly where it is. You can’t sell young cubs anyway; you have to sell them with their mother. That’s exactly why there are Aging Stones and such. People already have to wait until they’re a year old. So that’s not really changing anything. Just get an Aging Stone to get right around that, the same as people do now. That might raise prices, but considering it’s hard to sell as it is really, how is that going to do anything at all but hurt the people selling? All the people selling, not just the “mass breeders”. They won’t have to chase anything if they don’t want to, the wait time to actually sell it to another player is the same (either way until they’re a year or get a stone), and nothing at all will change.

As for policing the NCL like that, I can see why the staff won’t do it. They are allowing people to play as they choose and letting people work for the goals they want. They are respecting each player’s choice on their breeding goals. Not everyone breeds for levels or stats. Many people breed for specific colors, markings, or looks. Some try for the whole package; I’m one of them. I want my sub-male to have 500+ stats AND pretty looks, which is why I’m patrolling him instead of instantly having him take over. However, many people don’t care about the stats. They want the patterns and colors they like. They want to collect all the special markings. They want an entire pride of this color or that. Why should the staff punish people for having different goals? That makes no sense to me. That’s as bad as me saying “I hate this color. I think the staff should make sure lions of this color are more likely to die since that color is ugly/unrealistic/whatever”. Is that fair? That might be someone’s favorite color. Why should I demand they suffer for not caring about stats, certain colors, or whatever I personally might like?

I wouldn’t mind NCLs having a cool down before being in heat instead of just some in-heat and some not at random, but otherwise, I can’t agree with the rest. It’s unfair to force someone to level a lioness when maybe they don’t want to. What if she already has good stats and good color? Why should they have to level her if they don’t want to? Maybe they paid someone a lot of money to have her already at 500+ stats specifically because they prefer to breed her instead of hunt her. As to the cubs with low stats, the same reasons as above. Why punish people who are breeding for traits other than stats? Why force them to breed for what you (general you, not you personally) want instead of what they want? It’s their free time and their account.

Again, I don’t agree with punishing people for ignorance. They’re not criminals. I would guarantee 75% or more are not doing it out of any ill intentions. You don’t teach someone by punishing them for not understanding or knowing the “rules”, especially when the rules aren’t even rules. They’re just preferences. Preferences on a game they have just as much right to enjoy as anyone else does. That’s like me saying “men shouldn’t wear pink” and expecting any man wearing it to get arrested for it. It’s his choice to like it, just as it’s my choice to not too. Nothing malicious, criminal, or worthy of punishment in it.

The idea of giving a very small amount of SB is to encourage them to let go of excess cubs and NOT flood the market. It’s like giving a child a reward or an allowance for doing their chores and taking responsibility for things. Are you required to give your child money for taking out the trash and doing the dishes? Nope. However, if you do, they’re more likely to do it and they learn that if they do the right thing, good things happen. However, if I just expected them to say...do the laundry and didn’t tell them, should I ground them for not doing it the next day? When they had no idea I wanted that done? No, that’s just being a jerk to the child. I didn’t teach him anything; I punished him wrongly for my lack of responsibility. I didn’t tell him and then I got mad at him for not magically knowing what I want. It’s the same with people breeding cubs immediately. They have no idea that’s not desirable; the game FAQ and such encourages it! They don’t deserve to be smacked on the hand or “grounded” out of ignorance. Why not teach them and encourage them to do the responsible thing, which is remove the excess from the market.

I’m not disagreeing about responsibility and I think you missed something there. People see their responsbilities differently. I try and see the overall picture. That fish is large, aggressive, and harasses the other fish. I put the entire tank ahead and get rid of that particular fish, taking the loss of whatever time and money I put in because I believe that will improve the overall situation. However, someone else might instead try other solutions. They might put a net in the tank to keep that fish away from others. They might put together another tank specifically for that fish. They might feel that they don’t want to ‘throw away’ the money spent on buying, feeding, and caring for the fish. Are they wrong? No. They just value things differently. Neither person is being malicious or trying to make any of the fish-tank suffer, but we each choose a different way to deal with it.

I have no problem with education, but you’re putting your own values on something. Just because you think a consquence is bad doesn’t mean someone else does. You may hate a cub with this color and low stats, but what if that is exactly what the person is breeding for? What if they got the base, mane, and markings they wanted and don’t give a fig about stats? Then it’s not “bad” to them. That’s the point I’m making. Your “bad” isn’t everyone’s bad. And punishing them for not agreeing with what you (again general you) have decided are your goals for the game is wrong.

If you want to show them why you don’t agree? I can respect that. I’m all for teaching new players about controlling their breeding and how to make their cubs more desirable. I would love the game to have a mentor program perhaps, or more updated guides and information on the wiki and the forum. A lot of the stickied topics are quite outdated.

But if you want to punish them for not agreeing, I cannot disagree more strongly. You have no right to dictate to them how to play the game any more than I do. The staff from what you’re saying understands and respects that. Good on them. They’re giving their players the freedom to enjoy the game in the ways they want. Just because some think something is “bad” doesn’t mean everyone agrees and I think it is very wrong to imply people are criminals in need of being severely punished for having different goals or simply being new to the game and not understanding the current market. That’s a pretty jackass move, I think!

And once again...you keep fixating on reward, reward, reward. The SB is a minor encouragement for them to take responsbility and clean up the market. Those that plan ahead, get the high quality in-demand cubs? Their reward is a cleaner market where they can actually sell their cubs for a lot more money than the people just “mass breeding”. That isn’t reward enough? Do they need a pat on the head in addition for making ten times (or more) the money the inexperienced people could make if this system is implemented? That seems a pretty big reward to me. Purging the market of the extreme excess while allowing new players to not resort to begging seems a pretty good reward for everyone to me, in addition to allowing those who are breeding more carefully to actually have a more healthy market where they have half-a-chance to sell their cubs.

I’m really confused how this kind of scenario is not a win-win for everyone, new ignorant breeder and more experienced careful one alike. It’s not as if the “better” breeders won’t be able to get money for the cubs they chase/turn-in too, right? They get one with low stats, no color, no markings...they will get the same money the “mass” breeder does. It’s not as if they can’t gain the same “reward” as everyone else just for planning their breedings more carefully.

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I am sorry, but this was just too long, and really had no patience to read all of it. Skimmed over it at most.

1. I am talking FOR the people who are part of the economy but face the problem of massbreeders flooding the market. Which part of that sentence was so hard to understand? I repeated it here now, just so it will be more clear.

2. It doesnt matter if the reward is so small. It is STILL a reward. Even if it is say 1 SB, it would still be a reward. It is best to get 5SB than nothing, right?

3. I have only brought up crime as an example and comparison. One cant solve a problem like this by giving money. They wont understand that they are harming the economy if you actually encourage it all. NO MATTER HOW SMALL AMOUNT YOU PAY. It will encourage their breeding because they know they will get something in return. No matter how small. You also cant compare this all to cookies. Because cookies dont harm other people.

4. And you guys are doing like breeding is the most important part of the game. Get over it. It is only important because the users made it important. I'd like to see limits to it in the future.

5. If you say that mass-breeders are amazing and they should be left doing this merrily... then why is this thread even up, why are we even discussing this? Then let them do whatever they want and quit this whining! If you want the market back on its feet, and actually want everything functioning, then regulations must be made and limits must be put.

6. If you say that one shouldnt put a limit on NCLs at all or breeding.... then why the hell are you complaining about NCL breeders? You want to let them do what they are doing? Okay then. Then dont complain but accept it and turn your head to the other side.

At is all I am saying.

People complain... then support the mass breeders? What?

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Axel, you're clearly missing the point I'm making and clearly aren't interested in actually having a discussion and offering reasons for your own opinion. You're stomping your feet, being rather rude, and proclaiming your way is the only way. You haven't actually offered any real reason other than "it's bad, it's bad, it's bad. They're bad, bad, bad. Do it my way."

Still in the effort to be fairer to you, I will actually read what you wrote.

1. Who exactly are you speaking for? You claim you are, but I don't see a ton of the breeders you claim you are speaking for agreeing with you. Whose voice are you declaring you are? Since when are you their spokesperson and how do I know your opinion is their opinion, whoever they might be. The part of the sentence that is "hard to understand" is your declaration of "I'm talking for THESE people" without saying who these people are or having any support in declaring yourself spokesperson. I'm not claiming to speak for anyone, but myself. You, on the other hand, seem to be claiming you're speaking "for the breeders like me", which I find puzzling as I don't see anyone else agreeing with you at the moment.

2. I never said it wasn't a reward. Only that you seem obsessed with it being one and how it's some huge deal.

3. Yes, I can compare it to cookies because mass breeding isn't HARMING anyone at all on this game. No one in this game has ever suffered actual HARM from anything that happened in the game. They may have suffered annoyance or lost their temper (which is another story), but nothing on this game is HARMFUL. It is certainly not in any way comparable to a crime. It's a lot closer to a kid sneaking an extra cookie, which might annoy the person that wanted the cookie but won't hurt them than declaring it some kind of heinous thing. I'm sorry I don't count fake beetle-money in an online game as more important than a cookie...but I don't.

4. Which "you guys" are you talking about? I don't breed as of yet, and only plan to on a small scale later. It would be extremely helpful for you to actually read instead of being insulting and imply because someone doesn't agree with you that they are part of some huge problem. What exactly am I "getting over"? I actually made the same point. Stats, breeding, etc. aren't the only point of the game and you demanding that the staff make people play the way you think they should is wrong.

5. Who the heck said anything about "mass breeders" as you love to throw around being amazing or great? I never once said anything even close to "hey, mass breeding is AWESOME". I simply said they weren't the malicious criminals you were declaring them to be and they certainly didn't deserve to be punished because they don't live up to your standards. To quote you, get over yourself. Someone who just started the game and is excited and bred lionesses without realizing the game economics does not need to be punished because you have it in your head that it's some terrible travesty to the way you personally play. Do they need to be educated to understand that willy-nilly breeding won't benefit them? Yes. However, your ideas of punishing them and telling them they're stupid because they have a fondness for their pixels is still a jackass move in my opinion.

6. I said that having NCLs not be in heat when claimed is a good thing. The other things I said would have no effect on the "mass breeding" you seem to be horribly protesting. Once again, it would make your view much more viable if you actually READ and comprehended instead of throwing insults and passive-aggressiveness at folks. More flies with honey than vinegar.

I don't see where I was complaining about any breeding at all. I said I choose to do this way, but respect others may do as they please. I never complained about anything. You are the one complaining and throwing around "mass breeding" as a crime and 'harmful'. Not me. I said it's a game and people should be able to play how they want without you or anyone else demanding they breed, play, do whatever with their lions how you have decided is the right way.

Once again, this isn't about "supporting mass breeders". You have completely missed the point, missed the benefits of a minor reward to encourage them to be more responsible, and missed the benefits to everyone on the game. You've just thrown around rudeness and passive-aggressiveness again, which is completely unhelpful. I've asked you several times to explain why it's bad, but all you have done is gone "it's bad, it's bad, it's bad" and claimed that it's harming people. It's a game that's not harming anyone and I've addressed why the minute reward would actually be a lot better in the long run than hitting them with a metaphorical stick as you seem to want to do.

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The problem is that you dont read either. Many times you seem to give my words other meaning than they have.

You are supporting mass-breeding because you say:
omg we shouldnt put any single limit on breeding because everyone has the right to do whatever they want.
Then if you think like that, then QUIT complaining and accept them. Because such great problems cannot be solved without putting in a limit.

I for one cant remember a discussion or any words from the devs when they put in the SB limit, saying that SB 'harms the market'. Now here is one thing that actually does harm it and you say they shouldnt put in a limit because that would limit something? I dont understand you. You want it solved? Then solve it right by limiting and regulating. Yes, it will limit others, just as the SB cap did, but that is the point.

And yes, it is a huge deal to reward someone who is harming the market, while others go empty handed. Normally those who harm something dont get rewards. As I said, no one will care how much the reward is. The knowledge of reward is what will piss people off.

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If you say so, but I can only read what you've written and you seem more interested in being snippy than actually explaining.

And no, I am not supporting mass-breeding. I simply said the solutions you decided would work would not, and I calmly explained why.

I never said there should be no limits on breeding, simply that your particular ideas would actually punish the people you're claiming you speak for. Reducing fertility only matters to those that keep the lioness. Mass-breeders don't. They tend to get rid of them and get more in the effort to get money faster.

Making it easier to breed faster by chasing would do the same thing. There would be even more excess breeding because they don't even have to bother going to get any new NCLs since that would remove the cool down. How is that even helping? I'm for the cool down on a females breeding specifically because it helps with keeping breeding more controlled, at least for those that tend to keep their lionesses.

I said we should not put your limits because I disagree with you deciding that people need to breed for what you have deemed is 'important'. Just because I don't agree with your opinions of what you think the regulations should be does not mean I'm saying "There should be none EVER." You seem to be the one giving words more meaning than they have.

I don't know what devs talking about SB even has a thing to do with the conversation. And just because the idea of a reward "pisses you off" doesn't mean it pisses everyone off. Not everyone agrees with you. Glancing over the last six pages, it seems like most people don't agree with you on this.

I see the small reward as encouraging the market to be less flooded. Instead of drowning trades and forums with "buy my cute cubbies!", they can simply get a small reward for getting rid of the cubs, thus taking them out of the market. They are basically being rewarded for chasing, which is what you seem to want. People tend to want to do something more if they have positive instead of negative reinforcement. That is simply fact. No one is rewarding them for "ruining" the market. They are saying they should reward them for realizing their particular cubs are NOT what the market wants and getting rid of them.

Once again, who exactly is going empty-handed because of this? I don't think people learning not to mass-breed deserve a pat on the head. I'm not asking for one because I did research and decided to raise stats before breeding. They get their rewards by having desirable cubs which sell. That is their reward. Cleaning the market by positively encouraging ignorant players to get rid of excess cubs will help that to happen. I highly doubt anyone is going to A) get rich if they're getting 3 sb per cub or B)going to suddenly decide that high quality cubs are worthless because of said reward. If anything, it will help those quality breeders to sell more easily.

However, I think you need to stop being so dramatic. It's a game. It's fake money, not real money. No one is being harmed and no one is "suffering". This is not real money and no one is starving or anything due to the game, are they? Goodness. It's a pretend economy on a game. Settle down and stop acting as if it's starving small children. It would be nice if the market was cleaned out a bit, but it's not exactly something you need to be getting pissed off over or claiming it's "harmful". It's annoying perhaps to people, but worthy of getting pissed off or declaring harm? I don't really think so....


Personally, in addition to this idea, I think a limiting the number of times a male can breed each week would be a good start. Instead of just 15 outside breedings and limitless personal breedings, why not stick to 15 flat? A male can breed only 15 times a week period, including his own pride and outsiders.

What about a limit to the number of pregnant lionesses (all lionesses, not just NCLs or ones of certain levels)? If a person can only have, say, 5 pregnant lionesses on their account that would limit breeding nicely without forcing anyone to work toward something they don't want. They can still focus on stats, color, or whatever they want, but that reduces the number of cubs they can produce.

Another idea might be to let the female's hunger/mood affect how many cubs she can produce. If she's only fed the minimum to keep the pregnancy, she only has one cub. If you keep her at 100% fed/happy, she has a higher chance of having 3-4 cubs (not guaranteed, but a higher percentage). It would make someone trying to breed say, 20+ females have a much harder time to do it and encourage people to keep smaller prides, thus reducing the number of females that can be bred.

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If there is a problem, please contact a moderator instead of trying to handle it yourself. The previous issue has been resolved, so there should be no more discussion about it. If this continues, there will be consequences. Thank you.
Edit: Deleted previous post. Please continue on topic, thanks!

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I'm reading all these ideas and trying to understand them; I think the idea of being able to earn a little bit of SB is an interesting one that should, at the least, be considered, like all ideas with good intent.

There is a different between "mindlessly breeding" and "careful selection." What if we limited the "donation lions" to only adolescents and above? I saw this idea from someone else a few pages ago but I can't recall their exact username.

So someone would have to wait 12 days in order to donate, in the meantime their lionesses will still be on cooldown so they can't breed those lionesses during that period. They will still need to hunt and provide food for these adolescents.

So, let's say someone got 4 SB for adolescents. If someone mass-bred and had 20 adolescents they're mass-donating that's only 80 SB you're earning for that amount of effort. Is that enough for someone to donate? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. If you said all lions could be donated (2 for cubs, 4 for adolescents, 6 for lionesses?) you would make more SB. There could be a donating cooldown so you could not mass donate.

HOWEVER, even if you did do all of this, this is only for the cubs that cannot sell. If someone is this "carefully breeding person" that breeds for pretty coats and stats, you are much more likely to sell and get more for that. It will be work for you, but the payout would be MUCH greater.

Either way, the carefully selecting breeder would have much more of a chance to make more SB than the person getting a couple SBs for cubs/adols/lionesses. Keep in mind that these careful breeders could also have cubs that they don't like/don't sell, so they can also make use of this system. Not just mindless breeders.

Would this be enough to take some cubs out of the market or have enough appeal to work? I don't think anyone can really say, I would probably use the system for my experiment cubs that I don't intend to sell.

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Not going to read through all the posts, but as a new player, that doesn't have a ton of time in their day to explore, to find the feathers, skulls, bones, and what have you to get the 3 - 22sb gain when selling, I'm finding it very difficult to make money on here.

And, as a new player I would hate to be told:

"You shouldn't breed your lions because they are crappy right now."

"Those lions aren't very nice, you should just rid yourself of them."

"You are hurting my chances at selling my lions because you're flooding the trading center and the sales with your lower stat lions."

No one likes being told what to do. I think that is the tone some of you are taking, it is a bit elitist. It takes time to get to the levels some of you have reached. For someone that doesn't want to or can't spend their RL money on the game, will NOT get those higher stat lions or coat bases and special markings that are on demand. For a long time, unless they are gifted or find some of the lower SB stud fees. Still there is no guarantee those lions will produce in demand coat colors/markings that would sell either. So then they would be stuck with what is deemed economically poor cubs. And most people are inclined to keep those special marked cubs unless they know they can make a bundle for them anyway.

I had to purchase Golden Beetles to do it, but I can't and won't spend a lot more money on here just so I can compete in a Market system that is broken/flooded. (by seemingly common agreement in this topic that it is)

I've only been able to sell 1 lion, the rest I have chased or kept. You randomly get feathers, skulls, and bones, and like I said it will take a lot of effort and time spent to get enough for it to matter. Asking people to not enjoy ALL the aspects of the game and WAIT until they have higher SB in the bank to do it, is unfair and selfish. It will end up turning a lot of people off.

Chasing is supposed to be the realistic and responsible thing to do. But when someone spends weeks feeding cubs to adolescence and interacting with them, putting any sort of time into something people will want something in return. Chasing just creates room and alleviates pressure on your food hoard. Pixels, yeah, but time spent on anything you want some sort of gain in the end. Chasing is seen for a lot of players, if you look through the sales topics, a last resort. That's for established players with high stat lions and new players with lower stat. So it's an aspect of the game that affects many. Just because some can chase without blinking an eye, doesn't mean that that's the desired action.

It's not a crime for new players to want to make a little money on the lions they are currently stuck with owning. Even if that amount would be similar to that of a Feather or Skull. And still enjoy every aspect of the game without fear of the established membership.

Breeding IS the game. Players have to do that to get the coat colors. They have to breed to try to improve their overall Den. Just because some people do it more often than others doesn't make them 'bad' for the game. Even if the market and population is flooded in the process.

This suggestion isn't rewarding mass breeders. It is a suggestion to free up the market and placing a source where there isn't a demand.

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Too many words @.@

One idea that's been mentioned before would solve a lot if not all of the market problems, and it's only two words:
Cub Mortality.

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