Posted by Unwanted overflow cubs and what to do with them
WitchWolf (#5939)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-05-29 06:03:16
Well, we're all seeing what's been going on lately - The game is way overflooded with excess cubs that are getting cheaper by teh dozen and in the end, only clutter the game for no good reason at all.

Now, on one hand, there are those players who are complaining their custom studs' cubs can't sell for big buck any more. Personally, I don't care - this is not a lion selling game so... tough luck.

On the other hand are those who, like me, would like to push for realism and would like to see the overflow of breedings and excess cubs done away with for those reasons alone. Those in the 'selling camp' can jsut as well tell the 'realistic' camp the same thing - Tough luck.

And then, of course, are those players who jsut like to take a few relaxing moments to look at some pretty lions and produce even more pretty lions because that's the way they like it. And no one should dictate to anyone else how to "properly" play their game - whatever amuses you the most is perfectly fine, right?

All that said, we do have one big common problem with excess cubs on here. People can't sell them, others are forced to chase away even when they don't want to. market is out of wack (since cubs are, for now, the only thing we're really actively tradign with one another) and subsequently, so is the overall economy.

Of course, you can always chase the cubs away and many people on here do exactly that. Some others don't, however and others yet are overflowing the market with low-end cubs, even giving them away for free because they jsut don't want to chase the cute little furballs away for purely sentimental reasons.


So, what to do to make all of us happy here - those who love studding their lions out cheaply, those who'd like to see only 'worthy' cubs on the market, those who'd like to force the prices up (or further down) again...?

Well, one thing that could go long ways to achieve that would be to create a way to sell the excess cubs directly to the game itself. Please bear with me while I expand the concept further:

Create a "cubs game store" and call it something like... "Lion Conservation Project" for example. If you can't sell a cub to other players and don't want to chase them away, your third alternative is to sell the cub to the "Conservation Range" instead.

Now, the symbolic fee you'd recieve for doing that should not be something big - Don't expect to sell the cublet for 500 SBs or 5 GBs or something. What you would be doing is a bit of a charity service there - you'd donate the cubs to a project dedicated to preserving and conserving the species, a project that would later on use those cubs or theri offspring to reintroduce the lions back in the areas in which they got extinct.
...Or whatever other suitable blurb suits you. I'm a biologist, so I like this one best. :P

However, not all cubs are really worth teh same, are they now? Someone would 'donate' a high statted cub and someone else a very low-statted one and they both get the same symbolic payment for them? Not fair. Or how about the difference between custom and non-custom lions, numbers of markings... everything?

Well, we'd calculate the payment you recieve based on several factors:

If you donate a high-stat cub, you'd get more than for donating a low-end one.

Far as the blurb goes, let's say that you just donated a healthy, strong new individual that is almost certain to survive to reproduce and create healthy offspring in turn. Good for you! You just made a huge difference in lion conservation project!

However, what if you donate a low-stat but high-markign or custom-coloured cub instead? Again, you'd recieve more than for donating the low-marking or wild-coloured one.

And the blurb for that would say that you have just introduced some very fresh and very valubale new blood to the overall gene pool. We all know (I hope) that one of the biggest problems in conservation is the extremely depeleted gene pools of the endangered species that we start from and therefore, donating 'fresh blood' (in other words custom colours/markings and so on) should be valubale in their own rights.


Small clarification here:
Since it has been pointed out in enough many comments that the idea of a lion intentionally giving cubs to humans is highly unrealistic, let me explain it a bit better. What the blurb would say would be something along the lines of "Humans came and picked out some cubs". What would actually happen game-mechanics-wise is that you, the player, would pick which cubs to donate.

I did not want to put the blurb first because people might get the wrong idea that I'm suggesting random cubs be taken from their dens without their input or agreement.


What do I hope to accomplish with this? For one, give some sort of a "drainage" route for the excess cublets on here. With this feature in place, many players would opt to donate the cubs there rather than go through a hassle of tryig to sell them or give them away. That would automatically mean far less clogging of the market and that, in turn, might give the prices a chance to stabilize in a more reasonable manner.

Finally, it could provide a small starting income for the new players - not much, but at least something. And also, a way to make those who just love breeding a chance to play the way they like palying without creating some huge disbalances in the process.


edit
I crunched some numbers for the "Conservation Center" now:

plain coat: 3SB
custom coat: 5SB
stats: 1 SB per 2 stats over 35 (rounded down)
:markings 4SB per marking (regardless of opacity)

Just to give you a rough idea of how that would work:

"Best" case scenario:

Custom-coloured, 10-marking cub with 100 stats:

5 (custom coat) + 15 (stats) + 40 (10 markings) = 60 SB

"Worst" case scenario:

Wild-coloured, 0-3 markings cub with under 30 stats:

3 (wild coat) + 0 (stats) + 0-12 (markings) = 3-15 SB

I'd say the prices are nicely evened-out; you'd be getting a really token payment for a very valubale cub and you'd get just enough to play a few Cups or glance at a Scrying Stone for a sub-par one.

Because the whole idea is to provide a way to do away with the excess cubs, not to provide a way to make tons of SBs.


edit

idea by Nephala [TCC] (#11886):
"Addition to the conservation to get people tossing cubs there instead of the TC would be a yearly reward from the "breeding stock," in the conservation sent on your birthday or a certain day of the year if you have donated enough cubs to the conservation. I'd think the "prize" could be anything from high stat lionesses to custom colored ladies."

alternate suggestion by Lynx (Raion) (#1885):
And maybe instead of custom ladies the prize could be gb for "highest donator for the year" so that no one can say "that wouldn't be fair for the people who buy/work hard for gb" or something along the lines since it would happen once a year.. And maybe have a certain amount of winners?


addition by muttduck (#78):
NONE of them [NCLs] should be in heat when claimed.

---while this does not pertain to the idea directly, it still deals with the overflow cublets problem and thus I added it in.
~~~~~~



This, of course, is just rough bone frame of an idea. Developing it further - how to determine the payments recieved to make them both reasonable and balanced above all needs some further tought. And since I'd rather not sit and ponder it all on my ownsies, I'm putting this up for discussion to see what others might come up with along these lines.

I'll make few suggestions to start it off:

---We could have a leaderboard for the "most cubs donated" or "most healthy cubs doanted" or "most genetically diverse cubs donated"

---We could have something like... badges or fame or however you choose to call it - a third in-game currency of sorts that, if you gain enough of it, would give you access to some special perks or something. Yes, yes, this would mean making a whole new "badge" or "fame" thing beforehand but... it's an idea at least.

And now I'd like to swim in a flood of yours! :P




This suggestion has 696 supports and 5 NO supports.



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Edited on 07/06/13 by WitchWolf (#5939)

Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2013-07-02 20:14:02
I am..... Not sure about this idea.
Mainly because this would mean:
'You get money for breeding senselessly' thing... And the main point would be to reduce cubs born. At least some people are put off from breeding -note very few- because they arent sure they will gain money for their effort.

Now let's see how this idea would backfire:
1. People see they can get money for just breeding, so in hopes of more SB they start breeding every single lioness in their territory.
2. Oh wait... while I have bred the cubs, I should as well try to sell them on the market to see if I get anything more for them. (thus not at all reducing their count but only encouraging the breeding and flow of excess cubs on the market)
3. Oh well, after they are close to maturing, I better sell them now.

See? This isnt exactly the solution to get rid of them.

1. It will encourage further excess breeding, because people know they will get their money. Either by selling on the market or to the game. People will mostly put up the cubs to the trade center to see if they get anything for it, more SB than the game offers them.

2. It also grants more income for people generally with more lionesses, thus people with less lionesses will be in the disadvantage.

3. I got also many supports on my idea. Which would grant the ability of breeding the lioness sooner if the cub is chased. If you can just sell the cubs and get SB for it, if this feature would be implemented, people could easily abuse both features to gain more. If I had to choose between the two ideas, I would say the most fair would be the idea where you can simply breed sooner if you chase the cub.

4. While the amount of SB is insignificant for one cub, if someone mass-breeds a custom lion and gets at least 2 cubs with each lioness.... Each time the cubs are sold, it can generate a nice income. Which is unfair.
eg.: Someone breeds 15 lionesses to a custom male with nice stats, 10 markings. The lionesses also have good stats. The average count of cubs is 2, which means about 25-30 cubs would be born at once, perhaps average stat would be 100-90 (nowadays this isnt rarity at all.), some have custom, others have plain coats, average count of markings would be 5. This alone would generate the income of about 2000SB each time they breed like this. And if my idea is implemented, they can do this every two weeks.



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Edited on 03/07/13 by Axel (#6627)

WitchWolf (#5939)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-07-07 09:05:04
Well tought-out, Axel. As ever. I'm not entirely sure I agree with the points you're making, though.

See, the way things are going, players will breed and breed in order to try and sell the cubs at the market. Nothing we do is likely going to change that. This way, at least, once the cublets don't sell, they'll have someplace to dump them rather than chasing away.

True, one could start breeding for profit but I still don't think the possible profits would be as high as you paint them to be. If you mate a high-statted, high-leveled lioness (or a bunch of those) to an equally high-statted, custom lion, the resulting cubs will be the ones that are desirable on the market. IE, they were already bred with intention to sell and they already have decent chances of getting sold. Conversly, if you breed a load of NCLs for profit, the SBs you'll net in from such cubs definitelly won't be anything to write home about.

What might help things overall would be to... limit the selling to Conservation Center to adolescents only? That way, you'll think twice before spam-breeding simply because you'll have to take care of the cublets and their mothers for full 12 days before you can cash in. And since lions going away due to boredom and hunger will be more properly enforced from now on, you'll know you'll *have to* both feed and play with them. Feeding can be an expanse with so many hungry mouth so again, you'll think twice before trying for a cub mill.

And also, I did suggest a possible "badges" or "whatever" system - token rewards for cubs/adols instead of SBs as an alternative. Tokens that could be used elsewhere later - special item/decor/whatever, prestiege, achievement, you name it.



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Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2013-07-07 18:59:37
Sadly how the market looks like now... Not even 100-90 cubs sell, especially not if they arent custom.

I dont exactly agree with the badges and then able to use them somewhere for special items... I know myself that I would breed that I wouldnt need to get them. The goal is to pull back on breeding and not to encourage it with special items or tokens.

Limiting it to adolescents would be a good idea actually. I would agree with that and support the thread in return. Since it would still mean work and expense, it wouldnt mean such a profit if people mass-breed for the SB. And since one can have infinite territory now for GB, it should hold back people from breeding even more.

Although I have no problem with chasing. I dont like a cub, I just chase it off. I myself dont like getting attached to cubs that are just born because I know I judge them right and they mostly end up chased. So far I only let a single cub alive and grow up from the many breedings.



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WitchWolf (#5939)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-07-07 23:54:03
Sure, it might encourage even more breedings but at least the resulting cubs/adolescents would not end up flooding the market, which is the main thing we're after these days. Instead, they'd go "down the drain" and not clog either the sales nor the server itself.

I'll add the adolescents-only thing to the main post later on and see what feedback I get for that.



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String Theori 🌈 (#16609)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-07-13 07:33:46
Support!



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PopularBeing (#16521)

Usual
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Posted on
2013-07-13 10:32:25
I support!



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Raine (#9331)

Impeccable
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Posted on
2013-07-21 22:44:29
Love this solution!



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Lascivious Leopard
(Challenge! (#12679)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2013-07-22 01:47:58
I'm not a fan of the whole "rewarding for breeding" thing in general but with that being said I still think there are merits to this idea.

Perhaps while you do still get a small amount of compensation for donating the cub once you do so it means that the lioness who gave birth to the cub has an even longer cool down period, say an extra 7-14 days, because you can say she's depressed and missing her cub and isn't in the mood. This way while you do get a small monetary reward for breeding you will be unable to breed as soon again to stymie the flow of spam breeding by utilizing this option.

For people that aren't actually spam breeding and just have a handful of cubs they want to dump every so often this won't really effect them that much since they're unlikely to breed their lioness every heat cycle anyway.



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πŸŒ™
πΉπ‘œπ“π“‚π‘’
π“ˆ (#13901)

Bone Collector
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Posted on
2013-07-23 09:56:14
I love this but the only thing is that the price for the cubs is undesirable, I'd rather try my luck selling or trading if I'm only going to get 3 SB for a lion. Expectaly for newbies, the lions they have are more than likely low stats, levels, plain coats, wild coats, and no markings (like NCLs). And they are trying to get money and get into the game, so they easily will get 3SB max for their cubs for a while.

A lot of people base their price when selling off of stats (35 stats = 35 SB) then they add extra for looks and markings and levels.

Did the idea mention you could donate adults and adolescents?

Is you can donate adults, they are gaining levels and tons of stats everyday. I didn't see anything account for levels, if adults are allowed.

And, i think it would be intresting to consider adults. Because (this is my issue right now) I have a lioness that I don't like and she doesnt produce good cubs, but she is a simi high level lioness and I don't want to waste my progress with her by chasing her. And no one is attempting to buy, and I'm not giving her away for free.

That's really my opinion on this right now, I still like the idea, but it does have a couple kinks.

Is spam breeding where you just breed your lionesses when you get the chance, just because, then attempt to sell them for cheap?



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Villis (#17034)

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Posted on
2013-07-23 11:48:35
Admin edit - due to content not allowed on Lioden: please don't discuss other web-browsing sim games!



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Horse65478 (#17023)

Remarkable
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Posted on
2013-07-30 02:01:14
I thought of something similar, so thanks for posting this and saving me the time :D
One suggestion I have is the ability to donate lionesses as well, or make a similar place for donating them. I've noticed unwanted lionesses do a lot of server clogging as well as cubs.



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~ Mahogi ~ (#10400)

Amiable
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Posted on
2013-08-01 10:46:03
I love this idea! Just I think the money reward should be bigger for stats. Like 1 stat - 1 sb.



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Poopy (Main)
{Poo-Poo} (#12075)

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Posted on
2013-08-01 12:19:42
So, its basically "Monkey Buissness" but for cubs? SUPPORT!



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Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2013-08-04 22:38:16
I have thought this over and I dont support this at all now. Good thing I didnt yet click on the button.
For one, I dont want to see people getting paid for something as tiny as chasing a cub. Dont like the cub? Doesnt sell? Then my dear chase it. That's it.
I dont think that paying people with SB and tokens will pull back on breeding and selling. People only will be pulled more towards breeding. But of course before they sell it to a NPC, they first want to see if they can get more money from players. Thus increasing the cub amount further. More people will be tempted to breed and try to sell in the market since they know they will get some money for it.

Plus there would be a base of players who gets unique items or tokens for 'selling' their cubs to a NPC, then try and sell it to other players. I myself would go ahead, do some excessive breeding, first try to sell the cub on the market, then only after sell to NPC.

This is a bad idea or needs great tweaking.

I for one see people mass-breeding with 30-40 lionesses, sell each of their cubs to the NPC and get rich just by breeding a bunch of cubs. I dont think THIS is the aim of the game. This would give advantage to those who breed excessively, and not at all reducing the cub amount on the market.

I think a more suitable and fair method would be a non-paying and non-advantage giving feature, and that is to let the lioness be bred sooner after all her cubs were chased off. Trash the 12 days nursing and she comes into heat again after 9 or so days. Now this seems a far more fair 'payment' for chasing to everyone.



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Bynks (#16043)

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Posted on
2013-08-06 03:06:54
Admin edit - due to content not allowed on Lioden: please don't discuss other web-browsing sim games!



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Edited on 06/08/13 by Bynks (#16043)







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