Posted by Lioden Genetics Guide (revised 5/11/15)

Alma (#7695)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2015-05-08 05:27:22
Lioden's new inheritance model is here, and because it's based on another model I proposed (the one you may have seen and voted on in a News post), I thought I'd create a game guide for it to help explain how it works. This new model focuses on four basic factors inherited from one or both parents:
* Color Group: Black, Red, Cream, or Golden
* Gradient: Countershaded vs Solid color
* Shade/Range: Dark or Light
* Rarity: Common or Special

Unlike actual genetics, the only thing that matters is the visible color of each parent. Pedigree/heritage has no bearing on inheritance, and there are no recessive traits or "carriers": what you see is what you're working with. Here's what's at work in this model:


The first factor is Color Group. In this model, a cub will inherit a Color Group from one of its parents. These are the 4 color groups in this model:

photo BlackCSampSColorChartComplete.jpg

Cream Color Group Chart photo CreamColorChartComplete.jpg

Red Color Chart w/ Fiery photo RedColorChartComplete_2.jpg

Gold Color Chart w/Fulvous photo GoldColorChartComplete_3.jpg

If I cross two parents from the Black Color Group, then ALL offspring will come from the Black Color Group. If I cross a parent from the Black Color Group and the Red Color Group, I could get offspring from either the Black or Red Color Groups. If you're looking to produce offspring of a specific color, it is wise to breed parents from the same Color Group if not the same color; if you're looking for surprises and a wide variety of colors, breed two parents from completely different Color Groups.


The next factor in this model is Countershaded vs. Solid Colors, and a cub's appearance will be inherited just like its Color Group (from one parent only unless they're both the same). A Solid color looks exactly as it sounds: the base color is completely or nearly the same throughout the entire coat. A Countershaded color is a base color that has more than one color in its makeup, and while most colors countershade from a dark topline to a lighter underside, others are lighter at the topline and darker on the underside while the most recent is shaded darker along the midline. Here's some examples of what this looks like:

photo CountershadeExamplesFIXED.jpg

If both parents are Countershaded, then all cubs would be Countershaded; if both parents are Solid, then all cubs would be Solid, and if there is one parent of each type, then both Countershaded and Solid cub colors are possible.

If I cross two Countershaded parents, then ALL offspring will be Countershaded, and two Solid parents beget Solid offspring. If I cross a Countershaded parent and a Solid parent, I could get Countershaded or Solid offspring. If you're looking to produce offspring of a specific color, it is wise to breed parents that match the same Shade as your target color if not the same color; if you're looking for surprises and a wide variety of colors, breed a Countershaded parent and a Solid parent, which will increase your variety DRAMATICALLY.


The third factor in this model is Dark or Light Shade/Range. In this model, all colors within a Color Group are arranged into Dark and Light Shade/Ranges. The shade of the offspring is determined just like the other two factors:

Dark Range Color X Dark Range Color = Dark Range Color
Light Range Color X Light Range Color = Light Range Color
Dark Range Color X Light Range Color = Dark OR Light Range Color


I'll quote the original news post in regards to Rarity: "Rarity however is passed differently, and instead of simply being 50/50 between the mom or dad’s there’s only a 15% chance of a special cub per parent breeding. This means: If two specials breed, there is a 30% chance of a special cub. If one special breeds with a common, there is a 15% chance. If two commons breed, there is 0% chance.

Furthermore, there are a few bases that require at least one parent to have the same base when breeding in order to be passed on. Those are: Celestial, Lilac, Sepia, Pearl, Blush Rose, Inferno and Hallowed. Those bases also have a lower drop rate than regular special bases."

Albinos are somewhat different, as explained in Xy's update, "Albino genetics (are) still a random occurrence, but it has a chance of passing now if one parent is Albino, and that chance is higher if both are Albino."


Sounds simple enough, right? Let's give ourselves a chance to get familiar with this system and put all these factors to work! Here are two example breedings:

Example Breeding Similar photo ExampleBreedingSimilar.jpg

Breeding Example Different photo BreedingExampleDifferent_2.jpg

The second example shows how much variety a mismatched cross can give, so if you're looking for surprises, choosing wildly different parents will certainly give you that. On the other hand, if you're looking to breed a cub the same color as one of its parents, it pays to breed the desired parent to an individual of the same color or something from the same Color Group, Gradient, Shade/Range, AND Rarity.

... and that, fellow Lioden-ners (?!) is how Lioden inheritance works! I hope this guide has helped anyone with questions about the system to find the answers you were looking for, but if not, as I promised when I proposed my very first model 15 months ago, I will happily answer questions and help you find the best breeding to meet your goals here. Good luck and happy cub-making!

For the next "installment" of my game guides, here's a how-to about breeding strategies:

Successful Breeding for Specific Colors




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Edited on 11/05/15 by Alma (#7695)

Meso (#49519)

Usual
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Posted on
2015-05-08 17:28:51
confused: how is Hallowed a solid colour!? shouldn't it be classed countershaded?

EDIT//eep! double post



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Edited on 09/05/15 by Meso -Challenge Me- (#49519)

Avini (back from 1yr
hiatus) (#3670)

Dreamboat of Ladies
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Posted on
2015-05-08 18:21:40
This is really useful, thank you! :D I'm wondering if this will raise demand for bases like Maroon and such.



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Edited on 09/05/15 by Avini (fite me m8 ill rek u) (#3670)

Unova,
Rebellion's
overseer (#51172)

Maneater
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Posted on
2015-05-08 18:26:43
One of my families {S.O.M.B.R.A} is settled for dark lions{Onyx, Slate,Silver,Maltese, Hallowed, grey, Celestial, and others like that} Will this new set up make it easier/harder to breed for the pelts and traits we want?



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Msasi (#21461)

True King
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Posted on
2015-05-08 18:28:55
@Alma - Aw, thanks. <3

@Meso - Alma was saying in chat earlier that sorting the specials was pretty difficult; that's why a lot of specials - of which Hallowed is one - may sound a little funky in their categorization. They had to do the best they could with the categories they decided on and what bases they had, trying to plug things in and fill out groups!



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Scyllarus (#26842)

True King
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Posted on
2015-05-08 18:40:15
@Lady Sarabi

I guess it depends on what you're breeding for. My favorite bases are Slate, Celestial, and Maltese, so I'm a little sad because they'll have a lower pass rate due to the 15% per parent thing. However, I'm also happy because Celestial had similar issues to Onyx - they both bred kinda randomly and you could get Golden 3 cubs out of two Onyx parents, which....yeah.

So I'm happy because I can add Celestial to my pride without being worried about it throwing Mahogany (a base I really don't care for) or Golden 3, but I'm sad because I used to just breed Slate x Slate to get more Slates (or Slate x Maltese). Whether it'll be 'easier' to breed for something depends on what you were breeding for previously - if you were trying for an all Onyx pride, this is 12931293189 times better. If you're like be and bred the same bases together, this will make it a little harder.



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Msasi (#21461)

True King
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Posted on
2015-05-09 09:11:25
@Alma - This was brought up in chat last night, I think, but it looks like Light Golden got left off your chart for the light range goldens!



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Lia-Lin
(Unholy|4xLeonid|G4) (#36246)

Sapphic
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Posted on
2015-05-09 12:11:06
Ughhhhh, I have to breed golden now? Pfft, lioden what you doing to me!



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Alma (#7695)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2015-05-09 13:43:56
Oh, for Cripe Pete... this is what you get when you work on color charts when you're an insomniac and not sleeping. Thanks for catching that, Msasi!!! I'll go fix that now...

I'm also considering working on a guide that will help suggest targeted breeding combinations with emphasis on Specials colors. I swear, the work never ends! XD

... aaaaaaand now it's fixed!



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Edited on 09/05/15 by Alma (#7695)

Morr 🔥
9BOx2Mottx2RosMand (#26583)


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Posted on
2015-05-09 16:21:43
Ive bred for fieries the entire time ive been on lioden, keeping a few cocoas and other bases along the way, including prunes, albinos, etc....now ive got about 7/10 cubs will be golden in my den.... *dies*

Alma, i wish you good luck dear. Give it a few weeks and half of lioden will be ecstatic and the others will be sad and begging for chance boosts.... ._.



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Alma (#7695)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2015-05-09 19:04:34
When Fulvous gets distributed out there, it will be the best pairing for Fiery breeders, as it's only one factor away from being a Fiery itself (Red Group vs Gold Group), and you can add Sandy, Deira, and Copper as "fails" as well as Fulvous. Currently, Maroon, Maltese, and Cocoa are also good alternatives with the "fails" being Deep Fawn for Maroon and Gray for Malt/Cocoa. The assigned drop rates were decided on by the dev's, and I'm assuming this was to preserve the rarity of Specials.

People are focusing too much on same-color breedings with specials when they should consider "one-off" (one factor difference) breedings as a viable solution. Because of this, at this very moment (4:02 AM where I live), I am working on another breeding thread to help suggest breeding techniques to help people achieve their goals. I don't think the one-off concept is popping into people heads just yet because the system is so new, but hopefully the word gets out there soon.

... and in case this is some consolation, the devs are aware of this and the next base release will be geared towards this issue.



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mau | g1 6k frontal
3ros cel (#32469)

Impeccable
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Posted on
2015-05-09 19:46:58
Hey, Alma, sorry if you've already clarified this in the thread (I skimmed through, but half-asleep), but, since Malt and Russet breed like specials, and there are specials in the group that don't require one of the parents to have the base for it to pass on, does it mean malt x malt can make cocoa, and russet x russet can make Udara?



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Msasi (#21461)

True King
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Posted on
2015-05-10 02:38:44
@Mau - Yes, Malt x Malt should be able to make Cocoa (I think this one I actually tested the other day in the breeding test thingy). Russet x Russet shouldn't be able to make Udara, though, because Russet is in cream group and Udara is in golden group. Something like Russet x Sundust should give you a chance at Udara, though. c:



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Edited on 10/05/15 by Msasi (Fight Me!) (#21461)

Snowcat13-5x
cimmerian G1 (#52694)

Prince of the Savannah
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Posted on
2015-05-10 03:47:34
Looking forward to your targeted special techniques. I've been breeding maroon and maltese to lilac with very good lilac success. Now both of those are not as good and I have a ton of maroons I'm not sure what to do with. My whole breeding goals are totally thrown off now. I really hate some of the placements. Like my poor silver stud on side account has been throwing vanilla now where it used to be black, gray, white. I hate vanilla. And maroon throwing deep fawn....shudders.
I am curious too though whether this will help both maroon and maltese become more rare. And I'm sure not selling my slates as quickly as I used to.
I really do love genetics. The placement of some of the colors though doesn't excite me much. Seems like maroon should be in the red group, and vanilla in the cream.



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Msasi (#21461)

True King
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Posted on
2015-05-10 05:28:20
There's only 4 color groups. To keep the groups balanced, I think there are going to be colors that may look like they fit better in another group, but for balance reasons/to fill some groups out, they've been moved to another group. This is especially true with specials, as Alma has said before they really struggled placing some of those.

I'd say there may be reasons for some of the placements that we players may not be able to see yet; perhaps the admin want one base to specifically breed some upcoming/unreleased/unknown-to-players-at-the-moment bases and so it needs to go in a group that doesn't look like it makes much sense yet, but will in the future when the groups fill out more.



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Before (#25066)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2015-05-10 05:31:51
I like to think of the placement as this:

Golden=Red

Cream=Black

Notice how all of the NCL colors are in the Golden and Cream groups, and the custom colors are in the Red and Black groups (with the exception of Russet, which is a Special in the Cream group).

Even though some colors are not similar to their group at all, (Chocolate in Cream? Beige in Red?) they're placed based on how to get them rather than what color they are most similar to.

The specials are probably based on how common the admins want them to be, or how the admins want other colors to be distributed. Notice how all three of the Event Applicator colors are in the NCL groups; that had to be on purpose. Although it would make logical sense for say Inferno and Fulvous to be switched (Fulvous looking like a dark Golden), Inferno is probably meant to fail to goldens since it can be generated without any GB being spent, and no lottery being won.

The placement of the rest is probably just where they would best fit. Something needed to go into all of the spots, so maybe some of them don't fit all that well (Maroon? Cream? What are you talking about?), but SOMETHING has to go there. I'd argue that Fiery for example fits better in with the goldens than with the reds because the goldens are more vibrant than the reds, and Fiery is certainly vibrant.

*steps off soapbox*

Sorry, I felt I had to say that somewhere.

Back on topic! Great guide Alma! I bookmarked this topic; it'll be a great resource when it comes to buying new lionesses and trying for specific bases.



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