Posted by "Neotenous"/"insular dwarfism"

🥀 (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:13:17
There are so many ugly and some very disturbing suggestions here... so I thought of why not a cute pleasing to the eyes "mutation"!
~~~

petite_lionboy_by_bekiss-dcgl92n.png
petite_lionbae2_by_bekiss-dcgozgl.png
petite_lioness_by_bekiss-dcgoqiu.png
petite_lionessby_by_bekiss-dcgp1wc.png
(scroll downer for other mock-up sketches)

*changed name to “neotenous” (used to be called "petite")
other name: "insular dwarfism"



It’s a smaller lion (and cuter)
-Maybe the size of a leopard or cheetah?
lion_cheetah_size_by_bekiss-dcgkxwc.png
-It would be healthy and breed-able. Can be Kinged.
-Inheritable? Can be passed down by both mother and father. ?
-It will be for all age stages. Doesn't need to have different artwork for newborn and young cub, 'cause those are already small (that artwork could be resized smaller, if needed).

The effect it could have in game-play could be:
- That it has less chance when catching big preys (on its one it cannot), but more likely to catch small preys.
- It is harder to breed, more chance to fail breeding, and if bred with Primal there's a 50 chance of cub mortality even with nesting (Primals are huge). *But if this coding is too much trouble then just make them not able to breed with Primals and 25-50% chance of failing breeding for "small" male studs with any non-"small", (females already have a fertility %).
- Shorter gestation periods and sexually mature faster. (took that from wikipedia.) *could be hard to code, so ignore it?
- Stat penalty.

~~~~

mutation_tag2_by_bekiss-dcgl0r7.png

Neoteny: "Some common neotenous physical traits in domesticated animals (mainly dogs, pigs, ferrets, cats, and even foxes) include: floppy ears, changes in reproductive cycle, curly tails, piebald coloration, fewer or shortened vertebra, large eyes, rounded forehead, large ears, and shortened muzzle."(from wikipedia) Neoteny is very common in humans!

This suggestion only refers to mammalian neoteny, and neoteny does not affect every physical traits in all cases:
neoteny = the retention of some juvenile characteristics in adulthood

So in theory, these lions can have normal full manes.

The neotenous lion doesn't need to have shorter gestations and mature sexually faster.

~~~~
Insular dwarfism
the "pygmy elephant" is a good example click and info: click

In looks It's not identical to the "dwarfism" mutation here, because the body is proportionate, limbs will be average or slightly shorter but not really noticeable. (Made edit pics to show that. above.)
This type can be healthy and have a life span similar to their bigger relatives (both the pygmy elephants and asian-african elephants can live up to 70 years, and the pygmy sexually matures faster:10yrs. vs14yrs)


*Got another idea: what if you can get this mutation when breeding with dwarfs?
(edit: Not, 'cause insular dwarfism is completely different from that type of dwarfism that actually deforms the body proportions. and insular dwarfism is evolution/species adapting to an environment.)
petite_lionboy_with_dwarf_by_bekiss-dcgla5l.png

Lioden includes Madagascar? (click) so pygmy lions can be a thing here...?

~~~~

I'm not suggesting amphibian's paedomorphosis (or for this "mutation" to be called Paedomorphosis.) Axolotl are pedomorphic species, but they are not described with the word neoteny (click)

Info! :D (from encyclopedia britannica)
Paedomorphosis: "retention by an organism of juvenile or even larval traits into later life. There are two aspects of paedomorphosis: acceleration of sexual maturation relative to the rest of development (progenesis) and retardation of bodily development with respect to the onset of reproductive activity (neoteny).

Classic examples include certain amphibian species in which development is arrested so that the larval form and aquatic habit persist as the organism attains sexual maturity and becomes capable of reproduction. In some species only a few morphological features are retarded, but the number of features retarded may differ from species to species. Adult humans, for example, display various neotenic body features that other adult primates do not.
In other species all morphological development is retarded; the organism is juvenilized but sexually mature. Such shifts of reproductive capability would appear to have adaptive significance to organisms that exhibit it. In terms of evolutionary theory, the process of paedomorphosis suggests that larval stages and developmental phases of existing organisms may give rise, under certain circumstances, to wholly new organisms."

Source: (click)

~~~~~

It seems, the difference between neoteny and insular dwarfism, (of mammals), is that:
neoteny usually is that juvenile-like traits are being selected for/ passed down) and insular dwarfism happens in isolated groups.

Both seem to be gradual mutations/evolution. both natural and artificial selection pass down the traits of juvenile appearance and smaller size. but in some cases retention of juvenile appearance can be sudden..?

In both, it shouldn't really affect the mane growth, since these animals sexually mature, manes are sexual characteristic, example:
insular dwarfish= pygmy elephants have tusks; and neoteny= human have beards and body-hair (scarce beards/bodyhair is seen in asians, but many do have full long beards).
Mane size and fullness is dependent on its own genes and on hormones mostly.

Lets imagine its a barbary-mane pygmy/neotenous lion? xD

~~~~~

On how to obtains these small lions:
If it's not considered a random mutation maybe this could be the scenarios:
- Your lion bred with a mystery pygmy/neotenous lion and got an offspring. like with the hybrids(Leopons).
- A Rapid evolution like the Primals are (they are rapid-devolution?). Mutie on Demand?
- *You encounter a pygmy/neotenous lioness in explore and claim like the NCLs. Could be during an event only, like the groupies? Or a Raffle lioness. (in this case it will be a special "mutie" only obtained like these?)

*Mutations in these game are not always true mutations, hybrids and ancestrals(evolving back) are called mutations here. Not every "mutation" needs to be super realistic.

~~~~~

fTfwtKs.png
Maybe could be the ofspring of that? 😂 (t'is a joke)

~~~~~~~

Let’s make Lioden Cute! (some balance is needed, its too gory and gruesome)

(It would be awesome it could be bought at some time like a Mutie on Demand item)



This suggestion has 1428 supports and 221 NO supports.



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Edited on 20/07/18 @ 13:01:19 by Zizi 🥀 (#12402)

Maggi (#179403)

Pervert
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Posted on
2020-02-19 19:51:03
It's not for being short, it's about a special type of mutation/evolution where an animal is at a younger state than it normally would be while growing up. I think you misunderstood.



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Thalath {Offline} (#41669)

Wanderer
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Posted on
2020-02-19 19:53:01
"I'm 4'10 and quite frankly I'm not, "mutated." I'm just short. I kind of find this suggestion a little rude."

I'm 4'9 and it's not offensive in the slightest to me rofl. This isn't even about people, it's about lions.

"Not to mention the artwork on this does no significant changes other than short and "cute.""

You could say this about literally any mutation. Only point of Primal? To look "cooler". Regular Lioden Dwarfism? Also to look "short and cute".



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Edited on 19/02/20 @ 19:54:08 by Thalath {online} (#41669)

LittlePuppy {Vince} (#119969)

Confused
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Posted on
2020-02-20 03:28:19
Regular dwarfism on Lioden is actually based off of Achondroplasia. It actually does affect those with it. "Proportional dwarfism," doesn't generally affect those with it.

Most mutations that require a total art change like OP suggested typically does something with stats or other game changes. For example, primals have total art changes, but their gameplay change is in some variations both sexes can present it but only males can always pass it.

There's just nothing really new on the table. With them being proportional there would be no reasons for any new gameplay changes.



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Maggi (#179403)

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Posted on
2020-02-20 04:13:21
Once again, they aren't just "proportional" they are younger versions than a fully adult lion would normally be, once again I suggest watching the video trey the explainer made for more context: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81c5doqGh8A



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starryflesh 🍃
he/they (#169092)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2020-02-20 04:29:10
LIODEN YES THIS MUST BE ACCEPTED
If this actually works out its going to be my favorite mutation lol



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Cryptid✧G1 Ukame
[Hiatus] (#197426)

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Posted on
2020-05-16 00:41:46
OH MY GOD!! THOSE EDITS ARE SO FOCKIN CUTEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!



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Astrid┋CLEAN 3.7K
3x Clouded (#124118)

Angelic
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Posted on
2020-05-16 06:04:31
support! i think that if people don't like it as its own mutation, it can be a variation of dwarfism, like how there are variations with primal
for the argument of "this brings nothing new to the table,,, neither did Primal Smilus or Primal Felis. or literally any of the pies haha i mean obviously the majority of people are in mutations for the look of it

as for how it is obtained,, perhaps it could be introduced as you said, via NCLs, but it could be part of a challenge like this month's challenge? so perhaps instead of fighting 200 lions, you need to claim XNCLs & then you access a boost? this would also probably result in it being a rarer mutation than dorsal, because it's harder to claim a lot than beat a lot.



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FangsOfDeath |Pastel
Ferus| (#205826)

Aztec Knight
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Posted on
2020-06-19 14:34:19
I semi like the idea, it's cute. But it's more like an adolescent half way to adulthood. So for that I must say I do not support as a mutation. Though I totally would if its another stage of cubhood(?) for lions in general since they added extra stages to cubs, but not adolescents.



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Snowkit (#23944)

Amazing
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Posted on
2020-08-06 12:31:33
I really dont understand the whole "It's not realistic" argument...

There are NO pink, green, purple, or blue lions. More than 76% of the markings, bases, mane colors, and even the mutations, would not be seen on lions. We literally have events where demons and manticores are running around the Savannah. I dont know of ANY of the events on here that are realistic.
The argument for absolute realism is stupid to me.

Anyway, I dont know why so many people are no supporting just because of the art? The poster made those as a POSSIBLE idea for how they would look, the lioden staff didnt draw them, so why the hate? The art would change when the actual team draws it. The art here is just a basic edit of how the poster thought it MIGHT look.

Also the people saying being genetically mutated short and just being short are the same are dumb, thats all there is to it. There are people who are short who arent Midgets or dwarfs, there are people who are really tall who dont have gigantism, to suggest that everyone under 4'11" is a dwarf is just stupid.



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Edited on 06/08/20 @ 12:32:22 by Snowkit (#23944)

GayenaKing [Leonid
Project] (#74562)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2020-08-06 14:35:14
Please dont call people with dwarfism midgets, it's considered very derogatory and a slur.



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Snowkit (#23944)

Amazing
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Posted on
2020-08-06 15:56:02
I didnt?



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🪲Beetle🪲 (#129221)


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Posted on
2020-09-11 18:13:40
this isn't realistic and would honestly be useless..



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Maggi (#179403)

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Posted on
2020-09-11 18:45:24
All mutations in lioden are useless, and neoteny is a real thing



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Phantom StarsX (#92256)

Scourge of Lions
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Posted on
2020-09-11 18:54:19
I think that's the only requirement that's been mentioned, as long as it's a mutation that exists in some form, it can be suggestion on lioden. I dont know if that's possibly changed and as had been pointed out, what "mutation" means is a bit loose, since hybrids and primals are classified as mutations in spite of not being mutations.

Neoteny is as realistic as dwarf and melanism and hey it's kind of nice looking. I'm honestly surprised this hasnt been added



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Mwothman (#138189)

Spicy
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Posted on
2020-09-11 19:08:31
Neotony happens everywhere, dogs are neotonus wolves. Perhaps this should be introduced during the poacher event where some asshole person accidentally released them into the world, a horrid attempt at cuteness breeding. Maybe have the flavour text being like "Wow, they kind of look like a sandcat!"



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