Posted by "Neotenous"/"insular dwarfism"

πŸ₯€ (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:13:17
There are so many ugly and some very disturbing suggestions here... so I thought of why not a cute pleasing to the eyes "mutation"!
~~~

petite_lionboy_by_bekiss-dcgl92n.png
petite_lionbae2_by_bekiss-dcgozgl.png
petite_lioness_by_bekiss-dcgoqiu.png
petite_lionessby_by_bekiss-dcgp1wc.png
(scroll downer for other mock-up sketches)

*changed name to β€œneotenous” (used to be called "petite")
other name: "insular dwarfism"



It’s a smaller lion (and cuter)
-Maybe the size of a leopard or cheetah?
lion_cheetah_size_by_bekiss-dcgkxwc.png
-It would be healthy and breed-able. Can be Kinged.
-Inheritable? Can be passed down by both mother and father. ?
-It will be for all age stages. Doesn't need to have different artwork for newborn and young cub, 'cause those are already small (that artwork could be resized smaller, if needed).

The effect it could have in game-play could be:
- That it has less chance when catching big preys (on its one it cannot), but more likely to catch small preys.
- It is harder to breed, more chance to fail breeding, and if bred with Primal there's a 50 chance of cub mortality even with nesting (Primals are huge). *But if this coding is too much trouble then just make them not able to breed with Primals and 25-50% chance of failing breeding for "small" male studs with any non-"small", (females already have a fertility %).
- Shorter gestation periods and sexually mature faster. (took that from wikipedia.) *could be hard to code, so ignore it?
- Stat penalty.

~~~~

mutation_tag2_by_bekiss-dcgl0r7.png

Neoteny: "Some common neotenous physical traits in domesticated animals (mainly dogs, pigs, ferrets, cats, and even foxes) include: floppy ears, changes in reproductive cycle, curly tails, piebald coloration, fewer or shortened vertebra, large eyes, rounded forehead, large ears, and shortened muzzle."(from wikipedia) Neoteny is very common in humans!

This suggestion only refers to mammalian neoteny, and neoteny does not affect every physical traits in all cases:
neoteny = the retention of some juvenile characteristics in adulthood

So in theory, these lions can have normal full manes.

The neotenous lion doesn't need to have shorter gestations and mature sexually faster.

~~~~
Insular dwarfism
the "pygmy elephant" is a good example click and info: click

In looks It's not identical to the "dwarfism" mutation here, because the body is proportionate, limbs will be average or slightly shorter but not really noticeable. (Made edit pics to show that. above.)
This type can be healthy and have a life span similar to their bigger relatives (both the pygmy elephants and asian-african elephants can live up to 70 years, and the pygmy sexually matures faster:10yrs. vs14yrs)


*Got another idea: what if you can get this mutation when breeding with dwarfs?
(edit: Not, 'cause insular dwarfism is completely different from that type of dwarfism that actually deforms the body proportions. and insular dwarfism is evolution/species adapting to an environment.)
petite_lionboy_with_dwarf_by_bekiss-dcgla5l.png

Lioden includes Madagascar? (click) so pygmy lions can be a thing here...?

~~~~

I'm not suggesting amphibian's paedomorphosis (or for this "mutation" to be called Paedomorphosis.) Axolotl are pedomorphic species, but they are not described with the word neoteny (click)

Info! :D (from encyclopedia britannica)
Paedomorphosis: "retention by an organism of juvenile or even larval traits into later life. There are two aspects of paedomorphosis: acceleration of sexual maturation relative to the rest of development (progenesis) and retardation of bodily development with respect to the onset of reproductive activity (neoteny).

Classic examples include certain amphibian species in which development is arrested so that the larval form and aquatic habit persist as the organism attains sexual maturity and becomes capable of reproduction. In some species only a few morphological features are retarded, but the number of features retarded may differ from species to species. Adult humans, for example, display various neotenic body features that other adult primates do not.
In other species all morphological development is retarded; the organism is juvenilized but sexually mature. Such shifts of reproductive capability would appear to have adaptive significance to organisms that exhibit it. In terms of evolutionary theory, the process of paedomorphosis suggests that larval stages and developmental phases of existing organisms may give rise, under certain circumstances, to wholly new organisms."

Source: (click)

~~~~~

It seems, the difference between neoteny and insular dwarfism, (of mammals), is that:
neoteny usually is that juvenile-like traits are being selected for/ passed down) and insular dwarfism happens in isolated groups.

Both seem to be gradual mutations/evolution. both natural and artificial selection pass down the traits of juvenile appearance and smaller size. but in some cases retention of juvenile appearance can be sudden..?

In both, it shouldn't really affect the mane growth, since these animals sexually mature, manes are sexual characteristic, example:
insular dwarfish= pygmy elephants have tusks; and neoteny= human have beards and body-hair (scarce beards/bodyhair is seen in asians, but many do have full long beards).
Mane size and fullness is dependent on its own genes and on hormones mostly.

Lets imagine its a barbary-mane pygmy/neotenous lion? xD

~~~~~

On how to obtains these small lions:
If it's not considered a random mutation maybe this could be the scenarios:
- Your lion bred with a mystery pygmy/neotenous lion and got an offspring. like with the hybrids(Leopons).
- A Rapid evolution like the Primals are (they are rapid-devolution?). Mutie on Demand?
- *You encounter a pygmy/neotenous lioness in explore and claim like the NCLs. Could be during an event only, like the groupies? Or a Raffle lioness. (in this case it will be a special "mutie" only obtained like these?)

*Mutations in these game are not always true mutations, hybrids and ancestrals(evolving back) are called mutations here. Not every "mutation" needs to be super realistic.

~~~~~

fTfwtKs.png
Maybe could be the ofspring of that? πŸ˜‚ (t'is a joke)

~~~~~~~

Let’s make Lioden Cute! (some balance is needed, its too gory and gruesome)

(It would be awesome it could be bought at some time like a Mutie on Demand item)



This suggestion has 1423 supports and 220 NO supports.



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Edited on 20/07/18 @ 13:01:19 by Zizi πŸ₯€ (#12402)

Turnip Chair (#117787)

Wicked
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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:52:59
tigons and leopons are real hybrids and the lioden staff didn't just make them up haha, but no support from me anyways.



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πŸ₯€ (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:56:06
Small lions are a real thing :D look at cougars(mountain lions) xD also some of them have come in smaller sizes because of inbreeding.
I before thought of suggesting fat lions as mutation cause they look adorable xD but I can imagine all the hate for it and arguments agaisnt lol



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LittleAntler [BLM] (#30151)


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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:58:13
... Mountain lions aren't even in the same genus as true lions. They're smaller than lions because they're not actually lions.



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Turnip Chair (#117787)

Wicked
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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:59:12
mountain lions are a completely different species, and don't even live on the same continent as lions, so they don't exactly mean anything lmao



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πŸ₯€ (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:59:18
Huhu you guys break my heart, at least ignore my suggestion (dont click the no support) xD that's what I mostly do when I see a suggestion I don't care for. Only the no support when I really hate something



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Turnip Chair (#117787)

Wicked
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Posted on
2018-07-07 18:00:34
the whole point of posting a suggestion is to let other players share their own thoughts on the matter, whether they agree or disagree with the suggestion, and that's exactly what everyone here is doing.



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πŸ₯€ (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-07 18:04:23
Ok and I'm defending it hehe and voicing my (random) thoughts too



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knobbALPHA (#115794)

Holy
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Posted on
2018-07-07 18:07:23
I agree with everyone here, being "short" or "skinny" is not a mutation and really has no place being in lioden, if there started to be height differences in normal lions there would have to be "tall" lions as well to equal it out. All in all it would be an overload on the artist team especially considering not all the bases and markings are updated for the other mutations that have been here for a very long time. This is simply not a "mutation" that would have any appeal for the artists and many members of lioden.

If you would like to suggest a "cute" mutation, I would suggest looking up a few mutations in lions, or if you want to continue with this "petite" lion thing, I would most certainly suggest looking up variations of dwarfism and educate yourself all about said variation. As someone said before there are over 200 variations and not that hard to find one you would deem "cute".



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Fawn (#3654)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2018-07-07 18:35:27
I am going to guess that from the description of your suggestion you want lions with primordial dwarfism. Interesting idea if so, but probably not really doable as it would mean a lion the approximate size of maybe a serval.



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Edited on 07/07/18 @ 18:38:20 by Fawn (#3654)

Micah 🌈 (#29140)

Bone Collector
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Posted on
2018-07-07 18:37:59
If its primordial dwarfism that this suggestion is meaning to be, that is already an approved mutation. ^^



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πŸ₯€ (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-07 19:12:30
oh cool didn't know that. thanks for letting me know.
... but reading it says they can't breed and die young (8 years) :/ so they aren't like the primals and dwarfs.
why would a pygmy lion and be infertile and die. I would have thought at least the males could breed but not the females because they would be too small, to carry for full term. I guess those lions must be tiny like servals? that would explain infertily but not death :( unless that size is due to many bad genes that affect its growth and health so the size is just a side effect and not the cause.

I'm suggesting a lion smaller but not too small, maybe the size of a puma or cheetah? It would be healthy and breedable.. maybe as side effect of its size it has is harder to breed, more chance to fail breeding, and if bred with male Primal there's a 50 chance of cub mortality even with nesting (Primals are huge).



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Karmo (#98909)

Divine
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Posted on
2018-07-07 19:45:11
Hybrids aren't mutations. That's why they're called Hybrids.
Primals can be a mutation, mainly a genetic cause. Breeding an animal line back is very possible in real life, and in Lioden it was because of the lack of food.
Being short isn't a mutation. It is because of genetics, not a mutation caused in genetics.

And mutated animals become infertile because of the mutations, not even mutations become infertile, hybrids are infertile too.

A smaller lion isn't needed if it isn't an actual mutation and just something to be "cute". There's no reason to make an entire new lineart for a lion that's barely smaller.



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πŸ₯€ (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-07 20:01:14
Then could it be called Neoteny? "Some common neotenous physical traits in domesticated animals (mainly dogs, pigs, ferrets, cats, and even foxes) include: floppy ears, changes in reproductive cycle, curly tails, piebald coloration, fewer or shortened vertebra, large eyes, rounded forehead, large ears, and shortened muzzle."

You could get one like with the hybrids(Leopons). Your lion bred with a mystery neotenous lion and got an offspring.



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GayenaKing [Leonid
Project] (#74562)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2018-07-07 20:33:47
The issue with neoteny is it's a mutation found in domestic animals (likely from inbreeding), and it is entirely different than just 'being small'. Petite shouldn't be a mutation, its simply a body style, just like how there shouldn't be an obesity mutation. It's a body type that has to do with inherited, not mutated genetics and eating habits. As someone who is petite, this really doesn't belong in the game.



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πŸ₯€ (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-07 22:01:47
I got another idea: what if you can get this mutation when breeding with dwarfs?



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