Posted by "Neotenous"/"insular dwarfism"

πŸ₯€ (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-07 17:13:17
There are so many ugly and some very disturbing suggestions here... so I thought of why not a cute pleasing to the eyes "mutation"!
~~~

petite_lionboy_by_bekiss-dcgl92n.png
petite_lionbae2_by_bekiss-dcgozgl.png
petite_lioness_by_bekiss-dcgoqiu.png
petite_lionessby_by_bekiss-dcgp1wc.png
(scroll downer for other mock-up sketches)

*changed name to β€œneotenous” (used to be called "petite")
other name: "insular dwarfism"



It’s a smaller lion (and cuter)
-Maybe the size of a leopard or cheetah?
lion_cheetah_size_by_bekiss-dcgkxwc.png
-It would be healthy and breed-able. Can be Kinged.
-Inheritable? Can be passed down by both mother and father. ?
-It will be for all age stages. Doesn't need to have different artwork for newborn and young cub, 'cause those are already small (that artwork could be resized smaller, if needed).

The effect it could have in game-play could be:
- That it has less chance when catching big preys (on its one it cannot), but more likely to catch small preys.
- It is harder to breed, more chance to fail breeding, and if bred with Primal there's a 50 chance of cub mortality even with nesting (Primals are huge). *But if this coding is too much trouble then just make them not able to breed with Primals and 25-50% chance of failing breeding for "small" male studs with any non-"small", (females already have a fertility %).
- Shorter gestation periods and sexually mature faster. (took that from wikipedia.) *could be hard to code, so ignore it?
- Stat penalty.

~~~~

mutation_tag2_by_bekiss-dcgl0r7.png

Neoteny: "Some common neotenous physical traits in domesticated animals (mainly dogs, pigs, ferrets, cats, and even foxes) include: floppy ears, changes in reproductive cycle, curly tails, piebald coloration, fewer or shortened vertebra, large eyes, rounded forehead, large ears, and shortened muzzle."(from wikipedia) Neoteny is very common in humans!

This suggestion only refers to mammalian neoteny, and neoteny does not affect every physical traits in all cases:
neoteny = the retention of some juvenile characteristics in adulthood

So in theory, these lions can have normal full manes.

The neotenous lion doesn't need to have shorter gestations and mature sexually faster.

~~~~
Insular dwarfism
the "pygmy elephant" is a good example click and info: click

In looks It's not identical to the "dwarfism" mutation here, because the body is proportionate, limbs will be average or slightly shorter but not really noticeable. (Made edit pics to show that. above.)
This type can be healthy and have a life span similar to their bigger relatives (both the pygmy elephants and asian-african elephants can live up to 70 years, and the pygmy sexually matures faster:10yrs. vs14yrs)


*Got another idea: what if you can get this mutation when breeding with dwarfs?
(edit: Not, 'cause insular dwarfism is completely different from that type of dwarfism that actually deforms the body proportions. and insular dwarfism is evolution/species adapting to an environment.)
petite_lionboy_with_dwarf_by_bekiss-dcgla5l.png

Lioden includes Madagascar? (click) so pygmy lions can be a thing here...?

~~~~

I'm not suggesting amphibian's paedomorphosis (or for this "mutation" to be called Paedomorphosis.) Axolotl are pedomorphic species, but they are not described with the word neoteny (click)

Info! :D (from encyclopedia britannica)
Paedomorphosis: "retention by an organism of juvenile or even larval traits into later life. There are two aspects of paedomorphosis: acceleration of sexual maturation relative to the rest of development (progenesis) and retardation of bodily development with respect to the onset of reproductive activity (neoteny).

Classic examples include certain amphibian species in which development is arrested so that the larval form and aquatic habit persist as the organism attains sexual maturity and becomes capable of reproduction. In some species only a few morphological features are retarded, but the number of features retarded may differ from species to species. Adult humans, for example, display various neotenic body features that other adult primates do not.
In other species all morphological development is retarded; the organism is juvenilized but sexually mature. Such shifts of reproductive capability would appear to have adaptive significance to organisms that exhibit it. In terms of evolutionary theory, the process of paedomorphosis suggests that larval stages and developmental phases of existing organisms may give rise, under certain circumstances, to wholly new organisms."

Source: (click)

~~~~~

It seems, the difference between neoteny and insular dwarfism, (of mammals), is that:
neoteny usually is that juvenile-like traits are being selected for/ passed down) and insular dwarfism happens in isolated groups.

Both seem to be gradual mutations/evolution. both natural and artificial selection pass down the traits of juvenile appearance and smaller size. but in some cases retention of juvenile appearance can be sudden..?

In both, it shouldn't really affect the mane growth, since these animals sexually mature, manes are sexual characteristic, example:
insular dwarfish= pygmy elephants have tusks; and neoteny= human have beards and body-hair (scarce beards/bodyhair is seen in asians, but many do have full long beards).
Mane size and fullness is dependent on its own genes and on hormones mostly.

Lets imagine its a barbary-mane pygmy/neotenous lion? xD

~~~~~

On how to obtains these small lions:
If it's not considered a random mutation maybe this could be the scenarios:
- Your lion bred with a mystery pygmy/neotenous lion and got an offspring. like with the hybrids(Leopons).
- A Rapid evolution like the Primals are (they are rapid-devolution?). Mutie on Demand?
- *You encounter a pygmy/neotenous lioness in explore and claim like the NCLs. Could be during an event only, like the groupies? Or a Raffle lioness. (in this case it will be a special "mutie" only obtained like these?)

*Mutations in these game are not always true mutations, hybrids and ancestrals(evolving back) are called mutations here. Not every "mutation" needs to be super realistic.

~~~~~

fTfwtKs.png
Maybe could be the ofspring of that? πŸ˜‚ (t'is a joke)

~~~~~~~

Let’s make Lioden Cute! (some balance is needed, its too gory and gruesome)

(It would be awesome it could be bought at some time like a Mutie on Demand item)



This suggestion has 1423 supports and 220 NO supports.



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Edited on 20/07/18 @ 13:01:19 by Zizi πŸ₯€ (#12402)

πŸ₯€ (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-08 16:40:11
Look you guys have states your criticism so move on. That is almost like spam since you dont guys dont stop on and on dissing my suggestion post.
New people can give criticism.

And this is not the place to argue about animal abuse and captivity.



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πŸ₯€ (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-08 16:43:51
I guess it could be an oasis item. Though doesnt seem fun. Or something else. If lion’s variant get added it could be that. But so far I’ve only seen Primals and hybrids as mutations. Body types was a very old suggestion that was rejected.



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ADDAKAX (#14463)


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Posted on
2018-07-08 16:53:23
As it has been said before, putting up a suggestion means you're open to critisism. I don't see any of the previous posts as "dissing" or spam since they're all stating valid points. Not to mention, if you put a link that shows blatant animal abuse here, it will be adressed here.

I could MAYBE see this as an oasis item as it seems more of an aesthetic oriented sort of thing, but I do not see the point of this being a mutation.

A mutation is an error in a genetic code that causes a change in the animal - more often than not for the worse (See all the lethal mutations for example; They all outweight the "good" mutations). Primals, while based on real creatures, extinct or not, do not have any kind of stat boost, and hybrids speak for themselves. Dwarves are the closest thing this suggestion comes to, and they do not have any kind of boost either - they actually get less stats - so I don't see how this "mutation" would get any kind of boost. It is a small lion that can only hunt small creatures that will by no means support it in the long run even if being in a pride that fends for it.

If anything, this would be a lethal mutation that kills the lion as an adolescent at best. With that said, no support.



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πŸ₯€ (#12402)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2018-07-08 17:04:17
again with the animal abuse >_> it was just a link to show a small cougar. turns out I am promoting animal abuse and advocating for captivity of undomestics just by sharing a video...
To clarify, in that video there was absolutely no abuse nor promoting anything, it was about a couple that adopted/rescued a cougar from a petting zoo. Shows how they take care of it and how healthy it got with their care, before it was unhealthy.


Criticism is fine, but when the same person goes on and on criticizing only insisting their opinion only matters and is absolute, that it just very annoying.

I accept this is not a real mutation, but still I posted here because I thought it could be added in like the hybrids and other unrealistic mutations. Double uterus here is unrealistic (doesn't have penalty), so...



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Edited on 08/07/18 @ 17:16:45 by Zizi πŸ₯€ (#12402)

GayenaKing [Leonid
Project] (#74562)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2018-07-08 17:41:33
Only doublr uterus happens in real life, it's called uterus didelphys, and a human woman can go most or all of her life without realizing she has it. Meaning any problems it causes are sometimes are so easily brushed off that it goes undetected, and wouldn't pose too much of a problem. And hybrids are real, have stat penalties, and aren't extremely unrealistic. What your proposing seems like a scaled down lion with dwarf eyes, that's it. Any scientific backing you've provided would be more than just 'smallness' and this is an entirely unrealistic, and purely aesthetic 'mutation'.



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Karmo (#98909)

Divine
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Posted on
2018-07-08 17:53:21
We are not insisting our opinion matters, we're telling you that there's no benefit to mutations, and mutations are not supposed to be cute. Mutations can be very deadly. And if you rescue a wild animal from something, then give it to people who are qualified and have been licensed to take care of wild animals. Keeping it in your home is still considered animal abuse because it is still stunting the growth of the animal and still causing the animal to die sooner.
The mutations on Lioden can very much happen. As Somedude stated, double uterus is a real mutation that can happen.
Hybrids exist as well. Mules and Hinnys are the most common. Hybrids of black and white rhinos have been observed as well.

[EDIT]
And if it was a Pseudaelurus, then it for sure wouldn't look like that. They are the ancestors of Saber-toothed cats, which means they would look more like the Felis Primals we have rather than a dwarf-like clone.



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Edited on 08/07/18 @ 18:02:49 by Karmo (#98909)

FyreKit (#110998)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2018-07-08 18:03:24
Ima make my opinion short and sweet here. Would accept as an oasis item for an appearance change. Would not accept as a mutation. Most of my issues with it being a mutation have been said already.



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πŸ₯€ (#12402)

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Posted on
2018-07-08 18:48:31
I'll see if I can make this small lion suggestion in a different board category then, though I'll keep this one open.



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Slytherin clean
fissure wine (#76271)

Toxic
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Posted on
2018-07-08 21:39:24
love the idea and is very cute



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Edited on 08/07/18 @ 22:09:48 by Zero (#76271)

Stein | INACTIVE (#110501)


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Posted on
2018-07-08 21:41:59
Although I think the art is cute, I would have to agree that it isn't really a good mutation suggestion, just because of Dwarfism/Primordial Dwarfism already existing on the game- I wish they were more cute as adults, but that isn't realistic. Same with a lion with a mutation that makes it smaller. The health issues that are associated with/cause stunted growth aren't pretty.

I genuinely think your editing is adorable, but perhaps needs to be spun in a different direction than a mutation



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GayenaKing [Leonid
Project] (#74562)

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Posted on
2018-07-08 22:01:51
Calling them midgets is a massive insult. Midget is a 'pejorative' word, which is a fancy catch all for derogatory terms, slurs, etc. Midget isn't a medical word and never has been.



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πŸ₯€ (#12402)

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Posted on
2018-07-08 22:05:36
what about "litter runt"? they quite common in big litters.

I've seen stunt kittens and pups that grow up to be healthy, they just didn't received much nutrients in the womb (cause of these they get mutation in early development) or in their early life.
the stunt growth I suggest happens in the womb and is the type of only stunting its growth.



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Edited on 08/07/18 @ 22:13:24 by Zizi πŸ₯€ (#12402)

GayenaKing [Leonid
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Posted on
2018-07-08 22:08:12
A runt wouldn't be that small. And again, wouldnt be a mutation.



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FyreKit (#110998)

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Posted on
2018-07-08 22:11:44
I'm sorry if this seems rude at all but the runt of a litter does not necessarily remain small for its entire life. Also runts have been suggested before as a mutation.



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πŸ₯€ (#12402)

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Posted on
2018-07-08 22:27:00
yeah, I was just reading about it and said that, runts varies, have different health issues, some recover and grow to be healthy, others struggle. Since that has been suggested, then I'll keep this suggestion as Neoteny or dwarfism mainly.



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Edited on 08/07/18 @ 22:32:46 by Zizi πŸ₯€ (#12402)







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