Posted by "Neotenous"/"insular dwarfism"

πŸ₯€ (#12402)

Heavenly
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-07 17:13:17
There are so many ugly and some very disturbing suggestions here... so I thought of why not a cute pleasing to the eyes "mutation"!
~~~

petite_lionboy_by_bekiss-dcgl92n.png
petite_lionbae2_by_bekiss-dcgozgl.png
petite_lioness_by_bekiss-dcgoqiu.png
petite_lionessby_by_bekiss-dcgp1wc.png
(scroll downer for other mock-up sketches)

*changed name to β€œneotenous” (used to be called "petite")
other name: "insular dwarfism"



It’s a smaller lion (and cuter)
-Maybe the size of a leopard or cheetah?
lion_cheetah_size_by_bekiss-dcgkxwc.png
-It would be healthy and breed-able. Can be Kinged.
-Inheritable? Can be passed down by both mother and father. ?
-It will be for all age stages. Doesn't need to have different artwork for newborn and young cub, 'cause those are already small (that artwork could be resized smaller, if needed).

The effect it could have in game-play could be:
- That it has less chance when catching big preys (on its one it cannot), but more likely to catch small preys.
- It is harder to breed, more chance to fail breeding, and if bred with Primal there's a 50 chance of cub mortality even with nesting (Primals are huge). *But if this coding is too much trouble then just make them not able to breed with Primals and 25-50% chance of failing breeding for "small" male studs with any non-"small", (females already have a fertility %).
- Shorter gestation periods and sexually mature faster. (took that from wikipedia.) *could be hard to code, so ignore it?
- Stat penalty.

~~~~

mutation_tag2_by_bekiss-dcgl0r7.png

Neoteny: "Some common neotenous physical traits in domesticated animals (mainly dogs, pigs, ferrets, cats, and even foxes) include: floppy ears, changes in reproductive cycle, curly tails, piebald coloration, fewer or shortened vertebra, large eyes, rounded forehead, large ears, and shortened muzzle."(from wikipedia) Neoteny is very common in humans!

This suggestion only refers to mammalian neoteny, and neoteny does not affect every physical traits in all cases:
neoteny = the retention of some juvenile characteristics in adulthood

So in theory, these lions can have normal full manes.

The neotenous lion doesn't need to have shorter gestations and mature sexually faster.

~~~~
Insular dwarfism
the "pygmy elephant" is a good example click and info: click

In looks It's not identical to the "dwarfism" mutation here, because the body is proportionate, limbs will be average or slightly shorter but not really noticeable. (Made edit pics to show that. above.)
This type can be healthy and have a life span similar to their bigger relatives (both the pygmy elephants and asian-african elephants can live up to 70 years, and the pygmy sexually matures faster:10yrs. vs14yrs)


*Got another idea: what if you can get this mutation when breeding with dwarfs?
(edit: Not, 'cause insular dwarfism is completely different from that type of dwarfism that actually deforms the body proportions. and insular dwarfism is evolution/species adapting to an environment.)
petite_lionboy_with_dwarf_by_bekiss-dcgla5l.png

Lioden includes Madagascar? (click) so pygmy lions can be a thing here...?

~~~~

I'm not suggesting amphibian's paedomorphosis (or for this "mutation" to be called Paedomorphosis.) Axolotl are pedomorphic species, but they are not described with the word neoteny (click)

Info! :D (from encyclopedia britannica)
Paedomorphosis: "retention by an organism of juvenile or even larval traits into later life. There are two aspects of paedomorphosis: acceleration of sexual maturation relative to the rest of development (progenesis) and retardation of bodily development with respect to the onset of reproductive activity (neoteny).

Classic examples include certain amphibian species in which development is arrested so that the larval form and aquatic habit persist as the organism attains sexual maturity and becomes capable of reproduction. In some species only a few morphological features are retarded, but the number of features retarded may differ from species to species. Adult humans, for example, display various neotenic body features that other adult primates do not.
In other species all morphological development is retarded; the organism is juvenilized but sexually mature. Such shifts of reproductive capability would appear to have adaptive significance to organisms that exhibit it. In terms of evolutionary theory, the process of paedomorphosis suggests that larval stages and developmental phases of existing organisms may give rise, under certain circumstances, to wholly new organisms."

Source: (click)

~~~~~

It seems, the difference between neoteny and insular dwarfism, (of mammals), is that:
neoteny usually is that juvenile-like traits are being selected for/ passed down) and insular dwarfism happens in isolated groups.

Both seem to be gradual mutations/evolution. both natural and artificial selection pass down the traits of juvenile appearance and smaller size. but in some cases retention of juvenile appearance can be sudden..?

In both, it shouldn't really affect the mane growth, since these animals sexually mature, manes are sexual characteristic, example:
insular dwarfish= pygmy elephants have tusks; and neoteny= human have beards and body-hair (scarce beards/bodyhair is seen in asians, but many do have full long beards).
Mane size and fullness is dependent on its own genes and on hormones mostly.

Lets imagine its a barbary-mane pygmy/neotenous lion? xD

~~~~~

On how to obtains these small lions:
If it's not considered a random mutation maybe this could be the scenarios:
- Your lion bred with a mystery pygmy/neotenous lion and got an offspring. like with the hybrids(Leopons).
- A Rapid evolution like the Primals are (they are rapid-devolution?). Mutie on Demand?
- *You encounter a pygmy/neotenous lioness in explore and claim like the NCLs. Could be during an event only, like the groupies? Or a Raffle lioness. (in this case it will be a special "mutie" only obtained like these?)

*Mutations in these game are not always true mutations, hybrids and ancestrals(evolving back) are called mutations here. Not every "mutation" needs to be super realistic.

~~~~~

fTfwtKs.png
Maybe could be the ofspring of that? πŸ˜‚ (t'is a joke)

~~~~~~~

Let’s make Lioden Cute! (some balance is needed, its too gory and gruesome)

(It would be awesome it could be bought at some time like a Mutie on Demand item)



This suggestion has 1423 supports and 220 NO supports.



Hrt Icon 4 players like this post! Like?

Edited on 20/07/18 @ 13:01:19 by Zizi πŸ₯€ (#12402)

FyreKit (#110998)

Deathlord of the Jungle
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-07 23:01:34
It's cute and all but not really a mutation. Perhaps since it appears to be mainly for looks a decor can be made instead?



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

πŸ₯€ (#12402)

Heavenly
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-07 23:10:19
primal is a fantasy for lions. smallness is real for many animals, can happen by chance, and it is not lethal in many cases. How do you think small dogs and small cats exist? also look at miniature horse, they are small versions of regular horses.

... let lioden's lions devolve more, all felines descended form a small-medium feline.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

LittleAntler [BLM] (#30151)


View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-07 23:15:13
Smallness isn't worthy of a mutation. Smallness just happens. It's a natural variation in height that has no place being such a dramatic change in the game. If you want to make a truly viable 'small' suggestion, then do you research and find an ACTUAL variation of dwarfism that could be implemented into the game. Neoteny is exclusive to some primates, some species of amphibian, and domesticated animals. Lions fall under none of those categories. Primal lions, though? They have at least some foundation in reality. There is no advantage to being small unless you're on an isolated island, in a cold climate, or at a high altitude, whereas there's many advantages to being big. Africa is not an isolated island, not a cold climate, nor at a high altitude (at least where lions live.) Neoteny is not probable, whereas the January event could bring about some circumstances that make the lions meaner and more muscular. Sure, I won't lie - The primals aren't realistic. But that doesn't open the doors for us to add everything in because it simply looks decent.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

DrMordred (#131725)

Bone Collector
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-07 23:16:42
I support! Dwarf but in Teen version is what I need! Maybe it wouldn't be a mutation but I would love it to be in game!



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

GayenaKing [Leonid
Project] (#74562)

Interstellar
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-07 23:20:42
The smallness in human kept animals is from selective and extreme inbreeding over hundreds of years, and even then they're prone to health problems from the inbreeding. Prehistoric big cats were, well big cats. The smilodon is a commonly know prehistoric cat that works well as an example, and was around the size of what big cats are now.
If you can find sources of small prehistoric and lion-like cats that lions may have actually decended from and make a mutation suggestion based off of that then I'd love to hear it. But this 'petite mutation' isn't based off of any real mutation, petite is a body style, just like chubby or skinny or any other body style.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

DrMordred (#131725)

Bone Collector
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-07 23:24:46
Not as mutation, Maybe it would be very random! At random times and your lion aged up but it remains small? Kinda same for deaf, double uterus and etc, they're random. I would love one as my king owo



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

GayenaKing [Leonid
Project] (#74562)

Interstellar
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-07 23:27:06
Deaf and double uterus are still mutations though? There's amps, meaning they aren't shown until they're grown. While some size variation exists in lions its no where near significant enough to justify new art nor is it as small as shown in the first post.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

DrMordred (#131725)

Bone Collector
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-07 23:28:11
That depends through, but they're random.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

GayenaKing [Leonid
Project] (#74562)

Interstellar
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-07 23:30:36
They're random, like all other mutations that aren't only inheritable. And you can increase your chances of getting them by using things like crb and gmo cows.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

πŸ₯€ (#12402)

Heavenly
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-07 23:33:16
Finally found a kindred spirit.
I'll maybe try and make a teen version of it :3



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

πŸ₯€ (#12402)

Heavenly
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-07 23:57:55
Primals are pure fantasy and small lions can be both fantasy and realistic. Lions producing a sabertooth cub is 100% imposible but producing a small cub is posible its a simple feature in size only and retaining a juvenile look.
cause Lions aren't even related to Sabertooths they have their own group:

journal.pone.0039752.g001.png

screen-shot-2017-07-30-at-12-36-02-pm.png





Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Captain (#116042)

Maneater
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-08 08:27:39
No support,it's pretty much a dwarf with longer legs,and it's pretty much useless besides another large art rehaul and something "eye pleasing".



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

πŸ₯€ (#12402)

Heavenly
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-08 09:18:42
Lot of people here use the male teen item to make their kings look like small lions, so people will come to love this β€œmutie”. So this is not useless. Lioden will profit from this if they make it an oasis app also like with the Primal. I would buy.



Hrt Icon 1 player likes this post! Like?

Captain (#116042)

Maneater
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-08 09:21:27
No,they use it to make their lions Teenagers,and a lot of the time on mutated kings like Primal variations,so they can decorate them. It's pretty useless in the extent you're trying to argue. The clear lack of support shows that it wouldn't make them an awful lot of money.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

πŸ₯€ (#12402)

Heavenly
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-08 09:24:59
Making kings teens was a thing way before primals. Actually the good thing about small lions/teen lions is that they take less space and you can have more animals decors and show the BG. Thats super useful.
25 support is a lot.
Leopons didnt have much support at first.



Hrt Icon 1 player likes this post! Like?


Edited on 08/07/18 @ 09:27:31 by Zizi πŸ₯€ (#12402)







Memory Used: 648.18 KB - Queries: 0 - Query Time: 0.00000 - Total Time: 0.00420s