Posted by "Neotenous"/"insular dwarfism"

🥀 (#12402)

Heavenly
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-07 17:13:17
There are so many ugly and some very disturbing suggestions here... so I thought of why not a cute pleasing to the eyes "mutation"!
~~~

petite_lionboy_by_bekiss-dcgl92n.png
petite_lionbae2_by_bekiss-dcgozgl.png
petite_lioness_by_bekiss-dcgoqiu.png
petite_lionessby_by_bekiss-dcgp1wc.png
(scroll downer for other mock-up sketches)

*changed name to “neotenous” (used to be called "petite")
other name: "insular dwarfism"



It’s a smaller lion (and cuter)
-Maybe the size of a leopard or cheetah?
lion_cheetah_size_by_bekiss-dcgkxwc.png
-It would be healthy and breed-able. Can be Kinged.
-Inheritable? Can be passed down by both mother and father. ?
-It will be for all age stages. Doesn't need to have different artwork for newborn and young cub, 'cause those are already small (that artwork could be resized smaller, if needed).

The effect it could have in game-play could be:
- That it has less chance when catching big preys (on its one it cannot), but more likely to catch small preys.
- It is harder to breed, more chance to fail breeding, and if bred with Primal there's a 50 chance of cub mortality even with nesting (Primals are huge). *But if this coding is too much trouble then just make them not able to breed with Primals and 25-50% chance of failing breeding for "small" male studs with any non-"small", (females already have a fertility %).
- Shorter gestation periods and sexually mature faster. (took that from wikipedia.) *could be hard to code, so ignore it?
- Stat penalty.

~~~~

mutation_tag2_by_bekiss-dcgl0r7.png

Neoteny: "Some common neotenous physical traits in domesticated animals (mainly dogs, pigs, ferrets, cats, and even foxes) include: floppy ears, changes in reproductive cycle, curly tails, piebald coloration, fewer or shortened vertebra, large eyes, rounded forehead, large ears, and shortened muzzle."(from wikipedia) Neoteny is very common in humans!

This suggestion only refers to mammalian neoteny, and neoteny does not affect every physical traits in all cases:
neoteny = the retention of some juvenile characteristics in adulthood

So in theory, these lions can have normal full manes.

The neotenous lion doesn't need to have shorter gestations and mature sexually faster.

~~~~
Insular dwarfism
the "pygmy elephant" is a good example click and info: click

In looks It's not identical to the "dwarfism" mutation here, because the body is proportionate, limbs will be average or slightly shorter but not really noticeable. (Made edit pics to show that. above.)
This type can be healthy and have a life span similar to their bigger relatives (both the pygmy elephants and asian-african elephants can live up to 70 years, and the pygmy sexually matures faster:10yrs. vs14yrs)


*Got another idea: what if you can get this mutation when breeding with dwarfs?
(edit: Not, 'cause insular dwarfism is completely different from that type of dwarfism that actually deforms the body proportions. and insular dwarfism is evolution/species adapting to an environment.)
petite_lionboy_with_dwarf_by_bekiss-dcgla5l.png

Lioden includes Madagascar? (click) so pygmy lions can be a thing here...?

~~~~

I'm not suggesting amphibian's paedomorphosis (or for this "mutation" to be called Paedomorphosis.) Axolotl are pedomorphic species, but they are not described with the word neoteny (click)

Info! :D (from encyclopedia britannica)
Paedomorphosis: "retention by an organism of juvenile or even larval traits into later life. There are two aspects of paedomorphosis: acceleration of sexual maturation relative to the rest of development (progenesis) and retardation of bodily development with respect to the onset of reproductive activity (neoteny).

Classic examples include certain amphibian species in which development is arrested so that the larval form and aquatic habit persist as the organism attains sexual maturity and becomes capable of reproduction. In some species only a few morphological features are retarded, but the number of features retarded may differ from species to species. Adult humans, for example, display various neotenic body features that other adult primates do not.
In other species all morphological development is retarded; the organism is juvenilized but sexually mature. Such shifts of reproductive capability would appear to have adaptive significance to organisms that exhibit it. In terms of evolutionary theory, the process of paedomorphosis suggests that larval stages and developmental phases of existing organisms may give rise, under certain circumstances, to wholly new organisms."

Source: (click)

~~~~~

It seems, the difference between neoteny and insular dwarfism, (of mammals), is that:
neoteny usually is that juvenile-like traits are being selected for/ passed down) and insular dwarfism happens in isolated groups.

Both seem to be gradual mutations/evolution. both natural and artificial selection pass down the traits of juvenile appearance and smaller size. but in some cases retention of juvenile appearance can be sudden..?

In both, it shouldn't really affect the mane growth, since these animals sexually mature, manes are sexual characteristic, example:
insular dwarfish= pygmy elephants have tusks; and neoteny= human have beards and body-hair (scarce beards/bodyhair is seen in asians, but many do have full long beards).
Mane size and fullness is dependent on its own genes and on hormones mostly.

Lets imagine its a barbary-mane pygmy/neotenous lion? xD

~~~~~

On how to obtains these small lions:
If it's not considered a random mutation maybe this could be the scenarios:
- Your lion bred with a mystery pygmy/neotenous lion and got an offspring. like with the hybrids(Leopons).
- A Rapid evolution like the Primals are (they are rapid-devolution?). Mutie on Demand?
- *You encounter a pygmy/neotenous lioness in explore and claim like the NCLs. Could be during an event only, like the groupies? Or a Raffle lioness. (in this case it will be a special "mutie" only obtained like these?)

*Mutations in these game are not always true mutations, hybrids and ancestrals(evolving back) are called mutations here. Not every "mutation" needs to be super realistic.

~~~~~

fTfwtKs.png
Maybe could be the ofspring of that? 😂 (t'is a joke)

~~~~~~~

Let’s make Lioden Cute! (some balance is needed, its too gory and gruesome)

(It would be awesome it could be bought at some time like a Mutie on Demand item)



This suggestion has 1425 supports and 220 NO supports.



Hrt Icon 4 players like this post! Like?

Edited on 20/07/18 @ 13:01:19 by Zizi 🥀 (#12402)

cinno (#87927)

Heavenly
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-08 22:31:21
No support for reasons previously listed. Though, if you wanted a ‘small’ and ‘cute’ lion, you could just buy the cub stages and use the decor. That way, you wouldn’t need an entirely new mutation added! ^^



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?


Edited on 08/07/18 @ 22:34:57 by December (#87927)

Phantom StarsX (#92256)

Scourge of Lions
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-09 00:20:05
I support, most mutations are simply for aesthetics anyway, and it being a dwarf variation could make sense cause its sort of a half way between regular lions and dwarf lions which do breed together in the game. either way its obtained, randomly or otherwise. I'm really not too sure on the name, but yeah I dont really see a problem with the idea as a whole.
As for some of the other arguments...

"Its not an actual mutation in lions"
I'm pretty sure dwarfism isn't exactly either, neither is Melanism, and i get a feeling some of the lethals aren't exactly typical in lions, and people have been saying sizes do vary, it's not a mutation but compared to the other lions wondering around, not terrible to make it one.

"It'd be pretty useless-"
Deaf, clawless, toothless, blind, eyeless.....

"It'd be pretty useless people just want it for looks."
Tailless, bobbed tail, polycaudel, lethals, achromia, Melanism, female mane mutations, OG claw, OG tooth, etc.

"Just a art overhaul for the staff"
Leopons, tigons, dwarves, lethals, poses, all the primals, etc.

Edit:
(Something else someone said was something like this would be more like something that happened due to inbreeding..... uhhhhh do even have to say it?)

Sooo.... I'm confused what's the problem?



Hrt Icon 2 players like this post! Like?


Edited on 09/07/18 @ 00:28:07 by Phantom StarsX (#92256)

SouthernCryptid (#25664)

Cold-Blooded
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-09 00:31:18
It actually shocks me that people dislike this so much for those reasons? Basically all of those reasons apply to all other mutations. I don't even really collect mutations (I do typically keep the ones my main lion breeds though) and I just... don't get it.

Tell me the 'purpose' of things like leopon then? (Nothing against leopons!) Technically nothing serves a purpose when it comes to mutations; especially Lethals; which normally just kill the lion they are on anyway, and aren't common enough to keep cub birth rates low or anything like that?

That being said; I would LOVE this mutation; it's really cool!



Hrt Icon 1 player likes this post! Like?

🥀 (#12402)

Heavenly
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-09 00:40:32
People hated it that much because if was very flawed at first ^_^' (started as just smallness and juvenile look) and immediately got -5 and well that went up and up. But thanks to the harsh criticism and their dislike, it inspired me more and more lol so now my suggestion seems more posible as a mutation or variant similar to primals/leopons.




Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?


Edited on 09/07/18 @ 00:44:27 by Zizi 🥀 (#12402)

Berenos|On hiatus (#84593)

Resurgent
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-09 01:10:51
Hey there! I'd just like to point out that neoteny in itself means that physiological development is delayed, which leads to paedomorphism, that is, the retention of traits that are characteristic of a juvenile stage - heads proportionally bigger, limbs proportionally smaller, that kind of thing if we're only focusing on the looks. This happens naturally in some animal species, like axolotls - although there are studies that link artificial selection with it, so I use the term natural loosely. Thing is, these amphibians retain their larval gills among other things with the neoteny, and this led me to think "why would a lion affected by neoteny show such a dense, long mane?" Fully grown manes are a sign of mature, adult lions in most subespecies, so it seems weird to me that the mockup shows a lion with such cub-like looks and yet has such a mane. Adult male dwarf have them, sure, but that's because dwarfism is a complete different thing.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

🥖Your🥐Local
Bread🍞Dealer🥞 (#146681)

Lone Wanderer
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-09 19:40:42
Nuetral atm on the idea. Ill see what others have to say first ^^



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

GoldenRarity (#78603)

Devastator
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-11 14:04:18
'at least ignore my suggestion (dont click the no support) xD' - Asking people not to 'No support' your suggestion and only give you positive votes isn't right, criticism is just as important and valid as praise and positive feedback.



Hrt Icon 1 player likes this post! Like?

Zizi (#12557)


View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-11 18:02:20
I have updated the suggestion...

and

Haha yeah ^_^' though, I meant they shouldn't immediately hit no-support, they could remain neutral and give it a chance? .... My suggestion is not hurting anyone, it's a fun one.

Anyway, anyone who hates cuteness is free to hit the No-support. (ignore my request to ignore suggestion lol)



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?


Edited on 11/07/18 @ 18:04:50 by Zizi (#12557)

ADDAKAX (#14463)


View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-11 18:25:31
There's a lot to adress this time around, but I'll focus on the one thing that struck me the most.

"(scarce beards/bodyhair is seen in asians, but many do have full long beards)."

So you're implying that no other 'race' of human has little or more capacity to grow more or less body hair, and that asian people as a whole are a mutation.




Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Anonymous (#44152)

Demonic
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-11 18:35:41
"Anyway, anyone who hates cuteness is free to hit the No-support."

It's not that many as you put it 'hate cuteness' it's simply that they didn't support your idea, there is absolutely nothing wrong with not supporting something. Trying to make someone feel guilty over that is wrong, you may not like it but when you make a suggestion, some people may not support and you should accept that.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

PhoenixShadow🍁 (#18767)

Dreamboat of Ladies
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-11 18:55:40
Hmmm... I'm torn on this one. Initially I hit 'no support', but man, those adols... I would personally love to have some adols like that, they're cute. Also, having it be closer to an actual mutation seems cool instead of just having them be 'small and cute' or whatever, so I like that change, but they still seem a tiny bit too similar to dwarfism. Idk. I'm still torn on this and I might hold out on an opinion for a bit longer.
... Also I know this is nitpicky, but...
"(some balance is needed, its too gory, Gruesome and masculine.)"
...Masculine? What about that is inherently masculine?
Anyway sorry, that's unrelated to the topic, but it's a line that's bugging me anyway.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Zizi (#12557)


View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-11 20:29:30
We all are mutants from an evolutionary perspective. Dont really understand your question? Having little body hair is also found in other human groups/races. I simply used asians (koreans, japenese, ect) as an example of human neoteny, since they have many neoteny traits, so I have read.
—-
That causes a feeling of guilt? I was just kinda joking.
People feel free to hit No support regardless of anything I have come to appreciate your no-supports. They are as precious as the supports. (not being sarcastic lol)
-----
This game has too much testosterone so much the lionesses have manes! Yep its very masculine. (I'm kinda girly and this game doesnt have much cuteness, only the cubs, menhit and some decors are cute... What else? Of the butterflies and flowers.. Bast was pretty to look at.. Jolly, Good pose are cute but can't give it to every lioness... ) that first sentence is a joke. But dunno it feels very masculine since I'm feminine 😅. Cant really explain... We play from a humanized male lion perpective so obviously the game is mostly masculine.. I'm not asking for changes, just for cute lions, Primals are cool but not cute. And cuteness helps me overlook the gruesome stuff and that I am pretending to be a male lion 😹.
---
I guess I should once again edit the original post...



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

lyghts | pon lover
(he/hymn) (#132345)


View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-11 20:34:39
One Word:
YES.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

PhoenixShadow🍁 (#18767)

Dreamboat of Ladies
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-12 09:31:07
Zizi - I understand where you’re coming from about the whole calling it “masculine” thing, but I guess that line bugged me a bit because that’s massively stereotyping. I don’t think some stories are inherently more masculine or feminine than others. Idk, it’s definitely a small thing and not at all a big deal, but thanks for changing it



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Aconitira #B@H 💙 (#102117)

Maneater
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2018-07-12 15:03:59
No...absolutely no

It's basically dwarfism art wise theres absolutely no point to have it. Not to mention I'm pretty sure this isn't a mutation that has naturally occured in lions.

Lionesses can have manes. They can be lethally mutated. Lioden is based in reality with the exception of bases and markings. Mutations are all things that can or have occured in lions be it far in the past or not.

Theres plenty of "cute" on lioden. From decor to lions to mutations. You personally thinking nothing is cute isn't enough of an argument for me to support this. Sorry but its definitely a no support from me.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?







Memory Used: 664.46 KB - Queries: 0 - Query Time: 0.00000 - Total Time: 0.00448s