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| Posted by | Wider User Conduct Enforcement |
 [△] Nadir (#108458) Prophet View Forum Posts  Posted on 2023-05-25 18:23:03 |
[ Support My Other Suggestions? ] Revisiting Grandpaws Fixing 99999 SB Branch Listing Spam Making Sub Males More Useful ------- ✪ Summary: This suggestion is going to be kept relatively simple. There are some exploitable loopholes in the writing and enforcement of ToS and CoC which I am seeking to get patched. Myself and a number of other veterans have had conversations about these topics on and off for months, but it's been an issue for a very long time. Additionally, since the only argument against enforcing display names to be void of stud advertisements that I have seen is that it "helps locate studs", I have created this suggestion for users to provide customizable, searchable keywords for their studs and lions in their bios. Link to "Searchable Stud & Lion Keywords in Bio" Suggestion ✪ What I Am Proposing I am proposing the following changes: • Point 1: Re-Define & Enforce Begging Rules Veiled Begging Still Constitutes Begging Veiled begging or indirect begging is defined as follows: Open mentions which specifically state user goals and an exact amount that is needed, lamenting not having a specific item or lion, stating exact amounts needed to retrieve lost lions, etc. Just because a user doesn't specifically use a variation of the phrase "Can I have x thing?" does not mean they are not begging. Lioden users have learned they can use the variations of the following phrases to exploit a loophole in the rules and still receive the items they want: "All of my lions just ran and now I need to somehow make 3200 SB." "I just realized I don't have an IBF feather for my Dwarf's heat!! I need to find 2 GB quickly!" "All of my lions are going to run tomorrow and I don't have any food!" "I'm 5 GB away from being able to retire my king early!" All of the above phrases are veiled begging frequently employed by users to ask for free assets without directly asking. Many veterans on this site know what users are doing, and many of us are getting frustrated that mods knowingly turn a blind eye to what the rest of us know is purposeful veiled begging. SOLUTION: Update policy on begging to prohibit behaviour which may be used to directly or indirectly ask for game resources. • Point 2: Re-Define & Enforce Display Name Conduct Stud Advertisements. Users are repeatedly warned for advertising studs in general, alluding to studs, linking to studs, and so forth. I think it's time we recognize that display names count toward that. There is an obvious intent when a user sets their display as: Jane Doe: G1|x6Ros|Ferus Every time the user talks in main chat, they are advertising their lion up for stud. See: Link to "Searchable Stud & Lion Keywords in Bio" Suggestion Asset Begging Some users have GB goals in their display names, for example: John Doe[1/15 GB Goal!] Goals should be on user dens, not in display names. Event Begging And December especially sees a rise in this: Doe Doe: GIFT ME!! Preferences should be on user dens, not in display names. This constitutes begging, even if it utilizes an indirect method of doing so. SOLUTION: Update policy on advertisements to prohibit advertisements of any kind in display names. |
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[△] Nadir (#108458)
Prophet View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-05-25 20:17:44 |
peepy (#48100) :: Honestly, I agree. Some days, it's hard to follow a conversation full of @'s because half of them are just stud ad gibberish.  1 player likes this post! Like? |
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ellu | g1 10xbo noc (#139157)
Heartless View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-05-25 20:30:12 |
the name thing is really useful when searching for studs and I know the thinly veiled begging is kind of annoying in chat but some users just wanna vent and relate 1 player likes this post! Like? |
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[△] Nadir (#108458)
Prophet View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-05-25 20:43:27 |
ellu (#139157) :: Venting is one thing. Coming in and stating exactly what you need comes off as purposeful attempts to wring sympathy and assets out of people. There's a tonal difference between, "I'm worried I won't be able to make the money to reclaim my lions but I'm still trying" and "OMG I NEED 2,000 SB TO RECLAIM ALL MY LIONS". One expresses worry and making efforts to fix the problem. The other contains the unspoken but still clearly expressed desire to be handed the currency to fix their issues. That said, I fixed this suggestion to be about adding searchable, customizable keywords to lion and stud profiles to do what display name tags do, but in a more thorough manner that can benefit everyone equally. You can find it here: https://www.lioden.com/topic.php?id=304429508829 1 player likes this post! Like?Edited on 25/05/23 @ 20:44:11 by [△] Nadir (#108458) |
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🗡️ LunarKnight [Project King] (#151072) View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-05-25 23:40:13 |
Honestly I have my username as is so folks using the king search function know my queen is short gen. We can't search generation like on wolvden so finding a low gen heavy pie or any other lion is difficult. The rest I fully support though! ^_^ I hope some of the new functions on wolvden will be added to Lioden. We desperately need them. Inbreeding search, traveling system, generation search, etc. 1 player likes this post! Like? |
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[♰] Yharnam (#112370)
Holy View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-05-25 23:42:53 |
LunarKnight - G2 Heavy Pie! (#151072) :: As stated in the edited beginning of this suggestion and in the post directly above yours: Quote: Additionally, since the only argument against enforcing display names to be void of stud advertisements that I have seen is that it "helps locate studs", I have created this suggestion for users to provide customizable, searchable keywords for their studs and lions in their bios. Link to "Searchable Stud & Lion Keywords in Bio" Suggestion Within that suggestion, I've offered the following mockup.  3 players like this post! Like?Edited on 25/05/23 @ 23:45:13 by [♰] Yharnam (#112370) |
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🗡️ LunarKnight [Project King] (#151072) View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-05-25 23:46:00 |
My apologies. I didn't refresh my phone. I wasn't aware you added that part. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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[♰] Yharnam (#112370)
Holy View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-05-25 23:49:10 |
LunarKnight - G2 Heavy Pie! (#151072) :: No worries at all. I'm just letting people know because I'm trying to filter out this one argument I've seen against it since there's a better way to accomplish it. Honestly, searchable keywords would be much more dynamic and useful for a wide variety of reasons. Being able to input Heavy Piebald in the mutation search, then punch in "G1" and "G2" on the keywords search would mean players would get taken directly to a list with your name in it among others, and players could use other useful search terms as well, such as discounts and finding refunded studs. 1 player likes this post! Like? |
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🗡️ LunarKnight [Project King] (#151072) View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-05-25 23:55:00 |
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才藤 (#389089)
View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-05-26 02:05:59 |
Please. The amount of thinly veiled begging that is going down in main chat is absurd. I've also mentioned this in one of our conversations, but this should also expand to users who "mistakenly" post their stud advertisements in main several times in a row, to the point where you start learning their names, actually getting punished for it. 1 player likes this post! Like? |
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🧡 leon | g1 x2 ros bo ukame (#211229) View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-06-01 09:54:55 |
I honestly agree with all of this! Though I want to say it isn't the mods' fault that they can't act on veiled begging. They're not turning a blind eye; they can't really do anything. I popped that question over once and they're only allowed to act on blatant begging since "veiled begging" is a little subjective, and to some people, it is just venting. I do agree that it IS veiled begging nonetheless and that they're really really hoping for some "surprise" transferred goods to pop up in their inbox. The stud thing in names also grinds my gears, but that's also a thing mods can't act on at the moment unless it explicitly says "stud" in the name. I appreciate the usefulness of finding studs, but I would prefer the suggestion! 3 players like this post! Like?Edited on 01/06/23 @ 10:02:17 by leon 🧡 | side (#211229) |
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[♰] Yharnam (#112370)
Holy View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-06-01 10:52:10 |
leon 🧡 | side (#211229) :: Perhaps a slight re-write of rules will make it easier to enforce. I think that in most cases it can be easy to determine the intent. Listing an exact amount is pretty blatant, or items needed. There's a tonal difference between: "OMG I'm worried I'm not gunna get the remaining apps I need to complete my heir before he's old!" and "OMG I'm worried I'm not gunna get the 2 Artic Apps and 3 Ardor Apps I need to complete my heir before he's old!" You can practically hear the hands held out with the latter. I myself have utilized G1 and G2 in names before, but I've also sunk the time into looking through studs individually. I don't exactly have piles of free time, myself, but I'd much rather a custom keywords. A little daydream of mine is being able to find kings by using "Gothic", "Monochrome" or "Pastel" as keywords and getting to peruse kings that fit my project colour palettes. I'd love keywords for Clans too. 2 players like this post! Like? |
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🧡 leon | g1 x2 ros bo ukame (#211229) View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-06-01 11:10:20 |
I'm not disagreeing at all! I'm just saying there are certain things mods can and cannot enforce based on the actual admins' decisions. It was decided that they'd stop punishing veiled begging unless it was pretty much the entire person's chat history. Mods don't make the rules; they just follow them. I'm sure a lot would love to strike down on all the veiled begging, but it's not within their power. Veiled begging like we see in chat is mostly allowed because the big decision-makers interpret it more as people venting or trying to make conversation. And I agree that it IS beggars trying to get people to give them stuff, not just venting or conversation-making, but I'm just trying to say the mods can't help it. Not a knowing blind eye; they can't really do anything about it unless it is BLATANT and/or the person's entire history is just begging, begging, begging. I will say I think the veiled begging is actually pretty blatant, but it's not the same as literally saying "can someone give me this or that, thanks." Which is what they can clearly act on. So if the admins decide to rewrite the Lioden laws and include veiled begging and stud traits in names as actionable, the mods will actually have the power to fully act on the veiled begging, which is what the suggestion is about! I don't go looking for studs much anymore, but I would really like those keyword searches. That would be fun! :D 0 players like this post! Like? |
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[♰] Yharnam (#112370)
Holy View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-06-01 12:09:13 |
leon 🧡 | side (#211229) :: Yeah i know you werent disagreing. sorry if the tone wasnt there, just woke up. its my hope that occasionally pushing updates for the betterment of the site will improve moderation overall and better user experience 0 players like this post! Like? |
Mad Hyena (#29080)
Special Snowflake View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-06-01 12:13:06 |
No support, at least until generation is added to search!! Looking for G1 studs is much easier when the user puts it in their username, if it will be enforced to be put out of usernames, it will get harder to look for fitting studs! Being in a bio does NOT help, it will still be extra work when before you could just see it right on search, with keywords you would have to put in ALL possible individual words the users could have used to mark their stud. So when before you could see it in a name and understand its what you want from reading it, with keywords, you will have to input ALL synonyms, G1, first gen, heritageless, no heritage, gen 1, gen one, etc. endless list goes on. So until generation is up in search - that's a definite no support, keywords wont help here. Reading those synonyms in a written name is a LOT easier than having to remember every possible keyword users could have used to mark what you want. Same with event notes in usernames, its easier to find people to spread gifts to when they say they want gifts, and poops when they say they want poops. Its not really begging, its convenience notes that are helpful for interaction with this user - in event, I can just go through online list and gift everyone who has Gift me in their username, knowing they will like it. It will be harder to find such users if that was to be moderated to stay off username! Perhaps another idea could work better to answer the issue of it looking like advertising or begging. Maybe split Username into two parts, Name and Comment? Name would be actual name, and Comment - any additional comments the user wants to put in. Name field would be mandatory to fill in, Comment - optional and can be left blank. Chats would display only Name and not Comment. Forums, Online List, and Search would display both Name and Comment. And then option to Hide Name Comments in user options, similar to how we can hide CSS. So if you dont want to see them anywhere because you feel they're veiled begging, they'll be hidden, but for others who want to see them for convenience reasons, they will be visible. Users can also use Name Comments to put in various stuff like motto, catchphrase, or clan list, interests, "Looking for friends", "Not Rolling Over" etc. How does this sound?  6 players like this post! Like?Edited on 01/06/23 @ 12:50:55 by Mad Hyena (#29080) |
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[♰] Yharnam (#112370)
Holy View Forum Posts Posted on 2023-06-01 13:39:17 |
Mad Hyena (#29080) :: Keywords would permit users to define custom terms not only to encompass generations but also user-created breeding challenges, and keywords that users looking for or advertising particular things would be able to generate. Keywords would also benefit clans built around certain aesthetics. This suggestion is specifically aimed at enforcing "no advertising in main chat" rules, because that's what ads in display names are. It's rule skirting. I've seen it used for everything from stud ads, GB goals, event goals, etc. It's not acceptable to use rule loopholes and I think if we gave users methods to improve advertisement, that would benefit them as a whole. If you would like to draw up a suggestion for Generation Search, I would be happy to promote it in this one, or just outright design an "Advertising QoL Overhaul" suggestion entirely to be pushed along side this one. I absolutely like the idea of comments. Adding a little indicator symbol next to usernames that utilizes the same code as 'claim' popups would make it unintrusive in main-chat also. 1 player likes this post! Like? |
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